Raynox DCR-250 Macro Attachment

[Nonmortuus]

@RLC35

 So, I had had a play for an hour or so with the Raynox DCR-250 Macro Attachment last night and for the money (£45 ish) it does seem to help bring out the detail in higher res pictures on smaller coins. I did taking some pictures of farthings but found they were out of focus due to the tripod being on carpet and every time I focused the camera any movement caused the carpet to flex and the tripod to move.

I am new to the DSLR game (previously used a bridge SLR point and shoot) so I am still getting my head around white balance etc The pics below were taken with the Raynox. The lighting still isn't correct, I am having to play around with it for both Bronze and Silver, but it should give some indication of the performance of the attachment regarding detail levels. Hopefully as I get the light and focus issue sorted the pictures will improve.

This is my current set up:

Nikon D3100, 14mp Res
Raynox DCR-250 Macro Attachment
2 x LED lamps with 6500k bulbs
Lightbox to bounce/diffuse the light

[IanB]

Those are great pictures, I have been trying for weeks to get anything decent but not happy at the moment.

Before you push the shutter release do you view your picture through the screen or have you tried tethering the camera to a computer?

 

[Nonmortuus]

As the Auto focus is playing up on my one and only lens I am having to manually focus via the view finder, I am then using a remote shutter button to snap 4 or 5 images to review. The colour still isn't right. the 1915 has a more red tone to the toning and bronze isn't representative of the coin in hand, the 1931 Penny has a great deal of luster but the picture doesn't demonstrate it at all.

[Nick]

Lustre is not easy to capture, as it is effectively the result of light being reflected in slightly different directions from the surface.  The camera only "sees" those reflections which fit within its limited field of view.

It could be that you need to take your photos in a place that has more ambient light, or you could try moving slightly further away from the coin.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Nick
typo

[Nick]

46 minutes ago, Nonmortuus said:

As the Auto focus is playing up on my one and only lens I am having to manually focus via the view finder.

Close-up lenses have a tendency to make the phase detector used by the autofocus system go bananas.

[Nordle11]

Definitely right there Nick, such a difficult task capturing the true lustre.

I don't know if you already have, Paul, but take a look at the different lighting colours for different metals. I find white lights work amazingly with silver bits and lights with a slightly yellow tinge work much better for copper/bronze. For example, first picture was using an 7W LED white light and the second using a regular 500w(?) house light bulb. The setup and location was the same, just the lights were changed, lots of difference. Both coins are practically the same in terms of lustre.

 

You can see the juxtaposition just from the background which is just a thick white piece of card. Grey in one picture and brown in the other, neither of which is the actual colour  

[Nick]

2 minutes ago, Nordle11 said:

For example, first picture was using an 7W LED white light and the second using a regular 500w(?) house light bulb.

No need for central heating then if you have 500W light bulbs. 

A standard house light bulb these days is 60W (or a third of that for energy savers).

[Nordle11]

I don't even know that they have central heating here, I certainly don't haha. Should've read 50W, not 500W  

I'm not up to spec on my light bulb wattage but basically get a yellow one 

 

[Nonmortuus]

Thanks for the tips guys.

When I say auto focus is not working I mean its actually knackered on the lens full stop, the motor has gone lol. So I have to manually focus each shot.

I have 2 GU10 lamps that came with the lightbox I am using. They came with 3500k bulbs which had a yellow tinge. I replaced them with 6000k bulbs that are more white. I may just have one as a Bronze 3500k lamp and the other as a Silver 6000k lamp and see how they perform

[Nonmortuus]

I tried the 3500k lamp tonight and these were the early results, I still need to work on the manual focus:

 

Edited August 23, 2016 by Nonmortuus

[Nordle11]

Personally I think that's much better. Also a cracking coin  

[Paulus]

I agree, it also now appears to have some 'life' to it, keep going!

[brg5658]

The lightbox is killing your chance at capturing luster.  You cannot capture cartwheel luster when using fully diffused ambient (all surrounding) light sources.  Diffused light sources will also wash out colors/toning, as is the case on your lovely toned 1915 George V.

Lights need to be at a high angle and well above the coin.  If you are going to diffuse your light sources a little bit, do so at the lamp source itself.  By that I mean, diffuse each of the lamps with a sheet of paper or cloth, so that they are still reflecting off of your coin as two separate point sources of light.  When one uses a diffusion mechanism around the coin (e.g., a light box or milk jug) instead of at the lights themselves, light no longer reflects off of the coin from multiple point sources.  The surfaces of the coin will look flat and a bit lifeless, and luster will not show much as the few photons that happen to reflect up into your camera's detector are not enough to create the banded appearance of luster.

As example, Heritage Auctions uses a method to photograph coins in their auctions that diffuses the light at the coin, not at the point light sources.  Here is a Heritage Auctions image of a coin I own.

 

I use diffusion at the point source of the lights, and place the lights very high and close to my camera and lens.  This method brings out color, luster, and the life of a coin.  Below are my images of the same coin (yes, even through the plastic).

[Nordle11]

Thanks for that little lesson in light diffusion, that was very informative  

[Nonmortuus]

7 hours ago, brg5658 said:

The lightbox is killing your chance at capturing luster. 

The last image was not taken using a lightbox. It was taken with the shining from the top of the coin with the lamp being about 6" away give or take using the 3500k bulbs at a bout a 45 degree angle.

I will certainly try and give what you posted a go

Edited August 24, 2016 by Nonmortuus

[Leo]

7 hours ago, brg5658 said:

Lights need to be at a high angle and well above the coin.

BRG - May I ask you what temperature LED do you use for those photos? I am looking at obtaining a couple of the IKEA lights that you have mentioned a few times, and to re-create the setup that you have also described, but I think these come only in 3000-3500K, am I right?

[Nonmortuus]

7 hours ago, brg5658 said:

Lights need to be at a high angle and well above the coin.  If you are going to diffuse your light sources a little bit, do so at the lamp source itself.  By that I mean, diffuse each of the lamps with a sheet of paper or cloth, so that they are still reflecting off of your coin as two separate point sources of light.  

@brg5658 when you say diffuse the light at the source, how far away are we talking? Should I be using some plain white paper pretty much up against the bulb or an inch or so away?

My first thought was I will just cut some white A4 printer paper down and tape it over the lamp (that last picture was taken using only 1 lamp, no other lighting was on in the room), bring them in a tad closer and increase the angle of from around 45 degree to 78/80 ish.

I would welcome your thoughts as your toned pictures are always stunning!

Edited August 24, 2016 by Nonmortuus

[Nonmortuus]

4 minutes ago, Leo said:

BRG - May I ask you what temperature LED do you use for those photos? I am looking at obtaining a couple of the IKEA lights that you have mentioned a few times, and to re-create the setup that you have also described, but I think these come only in 3000-3500K, am I right?

That would be good to know! I am currently experimenting with 3500k for copper/bronze (following advice on here on this thread! Thanks!) and 6000k for silver (both GU10 LED lamps)

[Leo]

29 minutes ago, Nonmortuus said:

both GU10 LED lamps

Are they by any chance these?

[Nonmortuus]

21 minutes ago, Leo said:

Are they by any chance these?

Very similar yes, just cheap and cheerful lamps

[IanB]

 

I am giving this a go at the moment. The main reason being that I can have a large image on the computer screen to help me get the focus etc correct rather than trying to focus on a small image through the viewfinder or screen on the back of the camera. 

There are various free software downloads that allow you connect the camera to your computer. However Adobe Lightroom seems to be a favourite

Has anyone else used this technique?

http://www.diyphotography.net/introduction-tethered-shooting/

 

[Nordle11]

Tethered shooting is good (and makes you feel like a pro while doing it ) but really depends on your preference. When I take pictures there's no need to have the image on the computer because the viewfinder is good enough for me, also moving files across to the computer is nice and quick. Just saves buying an extra bit of kit really, but can definitely be beneficial, especially if you're taking 20+ pictures all in one go.

[Leo]

18 minutes ago, Nonmortuus said:

Very similar yes, just cheap and cheerful lamps

I'm very tempted to purchase that kit, but it looks like it would be challenging to place the light sources right above the coins, and I'm unsure if those lamps are GU10. If they were, I could purchase a set of different temperature LEDs to play around with them.

Nobody here does that thing with a sheet of glass at 45 degrees and horizontal light?

[Nick]

8 minutes ago, Leo said:

I'm very tempted to purchase that kit, but it looks like it would be challenging to place the light sources right above the coins, and I'm unsure if those lamps are GU10. If they were, I could purchase a set of different temperature LEDs to play around with them.

Nobody here does that thing with a sheet of glass at 45 degrees and horizontal light?

I bought something similar quite a while ago.  The lamps are halogen and get seriously hot.  IIRC the connections are not the same as GU10.

[Nonmortuus]

If you read the questions section it should tell you if they are GU10. The lamps won't go directly over the coin without obscuring the coin from the lens but they can get very close to being directly overhead.