Help grading 1804 BoE dollars please

[Mark240590]

Hi,  

live just bought myself a 2nd dollar and I was wondering if anyone on here could help me with the grades of them I put them both into the Fine category although both coins are very different both have weak strikes and evident under type. I believe #1 could be struck on a Guatemala Dollar given the positioning of what appears to be a cud next to hispan. It's obverse 1 reverse 1.

 

 

#2 is my new purchase these are seller pics but are brilliant, this is obverse 4 reverse 1 and is Carolyn's IIII under type dated 1808 which is the final issue for him.

 

Thanks in advance for any help

[Mark240590]

Apologies I missed the links out :S

 

#1

It's nicer toned than this its just under intense light.

#2 

 

[azda]

I'd give the first Good Fine and the 2nd NVF to VF. The underlying type are clearly vsible on both coins although there was no Carolyn's IIII in 1808, i suspect that was a typo. Here is mine, this also has the host coin on both sides, this was grade as EF or better and prooflike by the auction house

[azda]

It seems like i can only upload 500kb in any 1 thread and not in any post, so cannot add the REV sorry

[Mark240590]

13 minutes ago, azda said:

It seems like i can only upload 500kb in any 1 thread and not in any post, so cannot add the REV sorry

It's a shame it's beautiful. I'll have to save and get myself something along the lines of that too which has a clearer strike  

thanks for the grading help, I honestly would have only had both in F then again I am always conservative. I did also mean Carolous Ha ! The last of his issues, which along with the pillar and strong undertype in general prompted me to buy it

[azda]

I think having the host coin clearly visible makes These coins a bit more interesting, it's a pity they Are not more widely collected As there Are quite a few different types.

[Mark240590]

7 minutes ago, azda said:

I think having the host coin clearly visible makes These coins a bit more interesting, it's a pity they Are not more widely collected As there Are quite a few different types.

I find that with a lot of coins I collect. I don't usually focus much on the coins of the U.K. To be fair, although I love them. I've always loved the colonial coinage. I never seem to find anyone who collects with the same passion as me  at the moment colonially speaking in obsessed with Canadian tokens ! 

[Mark240590]

I find our trade dollars to be amazing too... Especially the chop-marked ones. So far for those all I have is 1902 chopped, 1930 london no mintmark. Missing the Calcutta

[Nordle11]

There are a couple of types of coins I would like to have an example of outside of my collecting area, and a chop-marked coin is one of them! I would love to own one, one day.

[jacinbox]

5 hours ago, Mark240590 said:

Apologies I missed the links out :S

 

#1

It's nicer toned than this its just under intense light.

#2 

 

1) F

2) VF

[Mark240590]

10 hours ago, jacinbox said:

1) F

2) VF

Thanks, now I have two people agreeing it makes me a little happier  

[Rob]

I think both fall a bit short of the grades quoted, though not by too much. The reverse of the second is better than the obverse.

[Paulus]

I would say aF for the first and GF (Obv) nVF (Rev) for the 2nd

[Paulus]

This is mine, I would like a better grade with the host coin showing through more

[Mark240590]

3 hours ago, Rob said:

I think both fall a bit short of the grades quoted, though not by too much. The reverse of the second is better than the obverse.

Un-doubtably yes, I am quite happy with my own grading usually and any other coin would be fine but with these being overstruck I like a second opinion. More so for #2 because I wouldn't have said it would grade much higher than 1 as I beileve the obverse of 1 has a better look too it than that of 2, although I think some of that can be attributed to a weakness in the strike. The reverse particularly the crown is a lot bolder but the legend is poor.

 

i think given the afore mentioned, it's likely in the future I will sell or swap #1 and buy a gVF or EF With nice clear strikes.  

[azda]

Personally i would keep both due to the host coins being visible, they are of a Great time in British history when the Navy was kicking Spanish ass.

Surprisingly enough a Proof BoE went through Heritage Last week unsold, $1500 Here is the REV of mine from above. The undertype can be seen through the legend in BANK

 

Edited January 12, 2016 by azda

[Mark240590]

2 hours ago, azda said:

Personally i would keep both due to the host coins being visible, they are of a Great time in British history when the Navy was kicking Spanish ass.

Surprisingly enough a Proof BoE went through Heritage Last week unsold, $1500 Here is the REV of mine from above. The undertype can be seen through the legend in BANK

 

That's a really awesome piece mate !

i didn't see the proof, they're cool though. Proofs have a polished edge  

[azda]

Described as follows

 

George III copper Proof Bank of England Dollar of 5 Shillings 1804 PR66 Brown NGC, KM-Tn1a, ESC-1935 (old ESC-152), thick flan. On obverse, stop after REX, leaf to center; on reverse "K" in relief. Even chocolate brown color, with fully mirrored fields. The finest certified example of this type.
 

[Paulus]

Very nice, was there still a 'host coin' for these, or is that a stupid question? 

[azda]

Not unless Spanish 8 reales came in copper 

[Mark240590]

That's awesome, all the proofs were struck on plain planchets