Watlington Hoard

[pokal02]

According to the Telegraph today, a hoard of c. 160 pennies was found near Watlington, Oxon recently mostly of Coelwulf II. This is interesting as I believe there were only nine specimens known previously. Presumably we can expect some to find their way to the market and reduce the five-figure prices on these by (?) 75% or so? ( I'm currently lacking one so would hope they come down quite a bit!).

When was the last example of a reign/major type becoming 10+ times more common overnight? Most Burgred coins were discovered in 1817, there must be a more recent example?

[Rob]

Bet you they try to keep the hoard intact. It's bound to be considered treasure, so it may be that there will be no new material available. If they can keep 52000 Romans together, despite the condition, then the likelihood of them dispersing this lot is remote.

William I PAXS pennies from the Beaworth hoard which changed the type overnight from rarest to commonest. Probably accounts for 95% of all known coins and as such the hoard list is a good proxy for absolute rarity of all dies. The Northumbrian Viking hoard at Cuerdale was later still in 1840. There will almost certainly be other examples

[Nordle11]

What do they do when they keep that many coins together, does it just belong to a museum or several or..?

[Rob]

The Frome hoard of 52000 Roman was kept intact, though I suspect there will be displays carved out of the total holding. The recent Buckingham find too. Sometimes they are kept in one place, sometimes they are shared around. The only consistent thing is that they are/will be kept away from the public and collectors. A lot of museums don't have anyone to look after the coins, they just fester in a shoebox or three. Blackburn museum is a good case. The Hart bequest in 1945 gave them some really choice and/or rare coins including Montagu's Petition Crown, but the collection languishes. In fact there isn't even a sylloge of it to put down on paper what is present in the collection.

The idea that they are kept for the nation is a little disingenuous as there isn't sufficient spare manpower within the various museums to provide an overseer if a member of the public wants to have a look. There isn't even sufficient numbers to answer emails. When I wrote the article on the Weyl patterns, only the BM responded to an enquiry regarding any examples in their possession. Don't expect any answers unless you use Freedon of Information.

[azda]

If only 9 coins were previously available I'd very much doubt the BM would hand any over for public purchase, at least not in the short term.

They would have to die study the coins and any possible duplicates MIGHT be offloaded eventually. I believe a hoard means 10 coins found in the same hole or a proximity of a 3 meter radius, when this is the case they must be recorded and handed over to treasure trove who then will determine if they are of national importance or not. I've heard of finders waiting months or even years for an answer back on their finds, this is why now some detectorists are reluctant to involve them anymore.

In other cases I've been hearing that the trove now want grid references of the finds before even bothering.

Edited December 12, 2015 by azda

[jelida]

Under the Treasure Act 1997 if the coins are gold or silver, and more than 300 years old, two or more associated coins constitutes a hoard, ten or more if base metal. Distance is not relevant if one-time association can be demonstrated to the coroner's satisfaction.

In my part of the world it can take 2 or 3 years for the treasure process to reach a conclusion, and the hoard usually claimed in its entirity. I would be very surprised if any (other than 'strays',as they are euphemistically referred to) ever reach the market, particularly as they can be used as loan collateral by a museum needing to raise funds after acquisition.

Jerry

[copper123]

TBH this hoard will not matter much to coin collectors , as they will never come on the market

Numismatists will have a lot of fun with them though

[Guest Matt]

Re the Buckingham Hoard mentioned above, actually this Hoard in its entirety will be on public display at both the Bucks County Museum and the Buckingham museum.

No shoeboxes and no festering.

best

Matt