1859 Penny

[rooneydog]

Got this as part of a job lot, a few questions

1) Please confirm small date variety

2) Are die cracks collectible here or looked on as imperfections ?

3) What grade would you give it (ignoring the rim ding I would go with AEF but would like confirmation or correction, please be as brutal as possible I am quite thick skinned and only hold a grudge for 30 years )

Thanks

[rooneydog]

Die cracks

[Nordle11]

1) Hard to tell, looks like a large date by the spacing of the last 9 but the 9 itself looks different from a large date numeral. Maybe someone who has this variety can help further..

2) I collect coins with die cracks, but seperate from anything else. For instance if this was a coin to fill a gap by year or bust or whatever, I'd want one without a die crack. I'd be collecting it as a "coin with a die crack", if that makes sense?

3) A nice coin in a nice grade, that's what I'll go with

[Cliff]

Please see attached pic of my 1859 Small Date which appears to have same/similar die fault as your example (plus 'blip' on rim beneath date). Will try to send better pic of complete die crack as receive "file was to big to upload" when I try to send the two pics.

Cliff

[Cliff]

"Cropped" die fault - to show fault from left, along base of neck and out the other side.

Cliff

[Coinery]

Die-cracks don't bother me at all, I see them as part of the numismatic journey of the dies, and are seldom detracting/disfiguring. A lot of varieties are spotted by, and identified from, die-flaws...where would we be without them?

[rooneydog]

Please see attached pic of my 1859 Small Date which appears to have same/similar die fault as your example (plus 'blip' on rim beneath date). Will try to send better pic of complete die crack as receive "file was to big to upload" when I try to send the two pics.

Cliff

Yes appears to be the same die but yours appears to have deteriorated further.

[rooneydog]

Die-cracks don't bother me at all, I see them as part of the numismatic journey of the dies, and are seldom detracting/disfiguring. A lot of varieties are spotted by, and identified from, die-flaws...where would we be without them?

I find the spelling errors on William III easier to spot

[azda]

A decent looking coin and i'd certainly say EF, but the rim knock would detract. Die cracks IMO bring nothing to a coin. As for small/large date i can't comment

[Peter]

Die-cracks don't bother me at all, I see them as part of the numismatic journey of the dies, and are seldom detracting/disfiguring. A lot of varieties are spotted by, and identified from, die-flaws...where would we be without them?

I find the spelling errors on William III easier to spot

I find it harder to find one without spelling errors.

[rooneydog]

Die-cracks don't bother me at all, I see them as part of the numismatic journey of the dies, and are seldom detracting/disfiguring. A lot of varieties are spotted by, and identified from, die-flaws...where would we be without them?

I find the spelling errors on William III easier to spot

I find it harder to find one without spelling errors.

That's because being from Suffolk you are probably illegitimate oops meant illiterate

[rooneydog]

This looks like the same die on its last legs !

http://www.pcgs.com/pop/valueview.aspx?s=202399

[scott]

Die-cracks don't bother me at all, I see them as part of the numismatic journey of the dies, and are seldom detracting/disfiguring. A lot of varieties are spotted by, and identified from, die-flaws...where would we be without them?

I find the spelling errors on William III easier to spot

I find it harder to find one without spelling errors.

where are you looking? I only find ones WITHOUT spelling errors, and people bidding £5-6+ on W&M washers

and yea die cracks.. I have used those a few times to find out a variety or die combination.

[Cliff]

Good pics of the die fault rooneydog. To get back to your original question as to whether your coin is a small date:

Michael Gouby gives a good definition of the 1859 SMALLER size date. Probably the easiest identifier is "Large border tooth is central below 5". He previously mentions that the 1859 Large date has the 5 to the right of the 'doubled' border tooth.

[rooneydog]

Good pics of the die fault rooneydog. To get back to your original question as to whether your coin is a small date:

Michael Gouby gives a good definition of the 1859 SMALLER size date. Probably the easiest identifier is "Large border tooth is central below 5". He previously mentions that the 1859 Large date has the 5 to the right of the 'doubled' border tooth.

Thanks Cliff, now found on Michaels Coins website

http://www.michael-coins.co.uk/cp_1859_date%20varieties.htm

Thank you Mr Gouby