alfnail

Interesting that he has missed probably the most interesting variant, i.e. with the bar in the zero, as per image below. I guess that's understandable if you only have a small sample of 27 coins though.

Trying quite hard with this one:- https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1845-VICTORIA-COPPER-PENNY/224097567098?hash=item342d41817a:g:D7kAAOSwvgVfIIaY

Ok, I have done this now Richard. It actually wasn't as easy as I thought it would be, but I'm pleased that you asked me for this information because I was a little surprised at the results. I had always thought that there were definitely more of the 'Large Numeral' type than the 'Small Numeral' type, but it turns out they were pretty close. I spent about 3 hours zooming in on all the images, and then double checked I had sorted correctly, Any that I was unsure about I did not include in the figures; some ebay pictures are not great! Anyway, 138 over 5 years split as follows:- 21 Could Not Tell / 55 Small Numerals / 62 Large Numerals. Hope that's useful for some members.

There was a post about 1902LT on the forum back in October 2015 about 2 different types. Different spacings of numerals and top bar across numeral zero.

I hadn't gone down to that level on the 1856's yet Richard, but guess it wouldn't take me long..... so will do it over next few days. Trouble is at the moment I'm writing up my Gambia Banknote collection whilst at the same time digging the neighbours Aspen roots out....... which are knackering my lawn. Wife now retired so need to be a bit careful about computer time!

I did an exercise on ebay for a full 5 years between 10 and 15 years ago where I took images of all Victorian Copper Pennies that were listed. Over that period, for 1856, there were 138 PT's listed and 79 OT's, some may have been listed more than once, but figures are still comparable....I think. Maybe this gives a guide as to rarity. There were very few in high grade, both types.

NODDY wouldn't pay the ransom.........but clearly you really knew that Chris!

Why do the elephants have big ears.............maybe not this one?

Looks like the canon ball has blasted through the rim and hit the lighthouse on this one!

One of my better purchases on ebay, open auction, 5 bids, got it for £23. Actual ebay picture and one I took of the coin when it arrived.

I see that 4 different bidders got caught by that fake 1843, which sold for over £100. Like you say Mike, 'caveat emptor'.

... and I suspect that the edge knocks and cleaning have been deliberately done in an attempt to make it look authentic.

I see that someone has now bid on this, amazing! https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1843-Victoria-Copper-Penny/164249753649

Thanks both. I have emailed you those 1858/7 pictures you wanted to see Mike.

Sorry, I think I have been an idiot. The picture of the 1858 which Richard showed above is the same as the type pictured on MG's website which he names CP 1858 G. I now think that I have mistakenly given the link to the other forum, saying that it discussed this date variety, when in fact it was discussing another very similar, but DIFFERENT 1858 overdate...….. which is the one often seen paired with the re-cut large rose reverse variety. That date also has a distinct 1/1 whereas the CP 1858 G does not. Unfortunately the pictures on that discussion have now been removed as it was so long ago (2009). In an effort to try to redeem myself I show below the two different 1858 overdates, so we can again discuss 9/8's, 8/3's or whatever.

I think that when MG was suggesting a small 9 back in the 2009 discussion he was probably thinking of the small numeral 9 on the penny, i.e. his 1859B as per this image....but the halfpenny 9 may perhaps be an equally good bet!

This date style was discussed in another forum back in 2009, picture of the actual date now removed but text makes interesting reading http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=6&threadid=712566&STARTPAGE=1

I could put a copy of the article on here if someone in authority could confirm I wouldn't be in breach of any copyright

Lux.... the alluring world of French roses, each flower carefully picked.....seriously though, had more sushine in the month of May than my panels have ever recorded in any previous calendar month.... but now I need a holiday....... a few wet days makes you quickly forget

This is the variety which MG described in the Spinks May 2010 circular as most likely being an 1858/2. It is distinctive by the die flaws which commence along the bottom of the numerals, and then further develops along the top and also towards the border. I have never seen one without any numeral flaws, so would be interesting to know if anyone has one like that.

Repaired V in VICTORIA on 1848Ad

I believe this is Plain Date Gouby Style Ad. Later strikes on this variety develop the die flaw which can be seen on your own piece (nice coin by the way) running through the VIC legend. This flaw also runs through the bottom of a repaired V in VICTORIA as shown below.

….and the DEI legend features

Gouby has identified two doubled variations of the Bramah 10c (his 1848C) on his website. He names these as types Ca and Cb, and I believe Richard's doubled example is a Ca, same as the one in my collection, 2nd picture below. There are many examples of fully doubled dates in the Victorian Copper Penny series. Whilst these are interesting to look at I prefer not to think of them as true varieties because, unlike the man made repair of the 8/7, the fully doubled date has occurred as part of the striking process. Both the non doubled 1848C and the double 1848Ca are, therefore, I believe from the same die pairing. So, for example, on the 1848C, Ca and Cb I think you will find that they all have identical other legend features such as the picture of DEI which I also attach in an additional post immediately below so I can clearly show the protrusions .

Yes Mike, Gouby type D I have found to be far less common. Here are close ups of the actual overdates on these 4 examples for reference.