Red Riley

I think as we have said before, few reasonably well-informed collectors would buy such an object direct from China. However, once in this country, attempting to pass them off as genuine is fraud, although the perpetrators could and surely would, plead ignorance. It has been known for some while that a high percentage of the Northumberland Shillings on the market are forgeries. I guess the answer is to keep your ear to the ground and only buy types which are known to have been forged from somebody you trust implicitely.

To be fair though, that's pretty much what I did at their age (I assume they are teenagers). My coin collection went into abeyance from about the age of 16 and I didn't really pick it up again until I was at least 40, once the attractions of birds and booze began to pall a bit. I did say pall, not go away altogether...

But it would be illegal to pass it of as an original item, or at least to imply as such.

What is the world coming to when we can't even welcome a newcomer to our Forum without suspecting he's up to no good.

Absolutely true Scott. I think that's how we all started. Went round a friend's house last week and her 6 year old was busily ferreting through a box of small change. We did a few experiments to see which ones were magnetic and he was enthralled. No doubt he will be receiving a packet of bun pennies and old sixpences in the near future. Sadly my own kids (now 27 and 24) couldn't give a toss.

No, I last spoke to him in early June, but since that, nothing.

Welcome to the forums Brian "the whole 30 years" of what, exactly? (By the way, you'd be better creating a new thread for something like this - just for future reference. But it's no biggie.) If I'm wrong I'll apologise but think this might be the prelude to a spam attack...

My recommendation for surplus coins of little value has always been 'find a kid who looks interested and donate the things to them'. Working on the 'little acorns' principle.

I think it's a George III shilling 1816-20 but given the amount of verdigris, it may be a contemporary forgery - almost as common as the real thing. I can't tell anything from the reverse, which just appears to be a mass of corrosion. To find the date, try scratching at the legend under the head. If it is genuine, it will have a value as a result of being 92.5% silver but otherwise nothing.

Given the metal used and the absence of a date, my first thought was that it was a coin weight. But the real thing checks out at 20 mm. diameter, 2.76 g, so I'm struggling. Could it be a toy coin?

That's completely off the wall. A bit like describing a classic wine as being 'rather wet'. There are some interesting people out there!

I would be surprised if there was any intention to defraud here. I suspect that a re-entered 'O' is way beyond the wit of e-bayers selling scrap bronze at 99p a throw. The first photograph looks like it was taken in natural light and the second under artificial light or possibly even a scanner. I can't explain the shadow in the first photo but these things happen. Photoshop when used correctly, is a useful tool and I find it essential to adjust the brightness/contrast when photos typically turn out too dark largely as a result of an automatic camera over-correcting the light exposure. Where it tips into fraud is functions like the spot-healing tool which can remove stains or spots of verdigris. I even have a function that can give the impression of wrapping the entire coin in plastic! Unfortunately there isn't one which works the other way round and removes the slab...

There is definitely something under the 2 which has an odd shape, as if it were cut to accomodate a pre-existing 1 and a slight projection into the field in the middle of the 2. The '0' shows no sign of having been re-cut. My scanner is getting a little elderly (like me) so this is the best image I can get.

Entitled 'Victoria on a po'.

Hmmm... interesting. Why is she sitting on what looks like an oversized football, holding a tea tray and a shovel rather awkwardly in her left hand while pointing at something out of shot with her right? All rather enigmatic... I remember seeing a few altered Britannia's for sale over the years. The first had Britannia's shield recut into a swastika, and then there was this which was for sale on e-bay two or three years back; Sorry, the edit function won't let me insert pictures so I'll put it on a new post.

These are rather poor images of a 3d dated 1562. Definitely a replica in pewter.

There are a few dodgy Elizabeth I coins around. Most of the forgeries are made of pewter and have a curious 'r' shaped mark on them. Almost impossible to tell from a photo though.

Thanks Colin.

A badly altered 1935 went for a hundred and something quid at the recent London Coins auction.

Hi Kath, I don't live a million miles from you and am just starting up as a dealer when I finally get everything together! I am quite well known on this site, so have a reputation to protect (whether my reputation's good or bad I don't know...). If you are interested, just PM me and I can pop over and have a look. Derek

I think we're all living parallel lives; I worked in Compliance, preceded by ten years as a salesman. I even had a stint working for the Financial Ombudsman Service. Perhaps we need a Numismatic Ombudsman? No, didn't think you'd agree...

And when we've done that, can we move round to HR and Compliance ? They normally have some pretty girls working in HR...

Thanks Bob, I like the elegance of the traditional system from Poor through to Extremely Fine and their variants; ignore Good and Very Good altogether and have serious misgivings about Uncirculated.

I would describe this as being pretty much a classic 'fair'. The terms G (good) and VG (very good) tend to be used more widely in America than Britain. Personally I dislike them as they are frankly dishonest descriptions; a layman using standard English to describe this coin would certainly not use the word 'good'! Anyway, rant over. I am not sure of the current prices but for 50% silver, don't believe it would be worth dramatically more than £1.

Okay thanks for that. As I see it therefore, there are two best ways to approach an auction; 1) Get in a postal bid before anyone else i.e. as soon as the online catalogue is published; 2) Don't bother sending in a postal bid, just attend the auction!