Paulus

I like this! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-32304126?SThisFB&fb_ref=Default

I like this! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-32304126?SThisFB&fb_ref=Default Edit: Oops, posted in the wrong thread, sorry ChKy!

Simple as that, ok, thanks Rob!

Please bear with me while I shift my focus from milled English silver to late hammered and early milled. I already have a few nice Charles I examples, and it is this reign I would like to focus on a bit more. My question here is simply regarding terminology, I thought a testoon was simply an old word for a shilling, and according to Wiki this was the common word for a shilling until the Act of Union in 1707. But many collectors and dealers refer to Tudor and earlier shillings as testoons, until sometime during the reign of Elizabeth I, when they are suddenly referred to as shillings - can anyone shed any light on this?

This is a nice enough coin on the face of it: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/391102654290?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2648&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT But what the smeg is going on here with the bottom left shield??

Er indeed Debbie! Guess you have the word 'engraved' in you search criteria!

Anonymous DIY TPGs add authenticity and certified grading apparently http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Stunning-Rare-UNC-Graded-George-111-1799-Half-Penny-ship-5-incuse-gunports-/221737652481?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item33a0981101

Bizarre, was GIII considered to have 'died' around 1800 when the Regency period started? Or is this just a 'silly' coin with non-contemporary graffiti on it? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1797-King-George-III-Cartwheel-Death-Penny-/251910891180?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3aa70f26ac

I don't have a problem with people asking any price for anything on eBay, you see it all the time with antiques, for example - as long as the item is as described and the pics un-photoshopped! I guess the word 'mug' applies to people paying over the top for these items, without doing any due diligence, and not returning them if they are not happy. However, when it comes to experienced coin sellers, while it doesn't breach any rules, trying to take advantage of human nature lusting after a bargain, without offering a grade or current price guide, is not going to win many friends or loyal customers.

Clearly these items are worth a fraction of what he is asking, and shilling is out for BINs, what is he hoping do you think?

The irony is that, as I scrolled down the listing, the first ad I saw was for a similar Eddy shilling from Buckscoins at less than half the price and a good grade (or two) higher ... . Ironic indeed! Probably worth 100-150 at best ...

A couple of close ups of my 1899:

I don't know that story Copper?

Are we all bored now?lol, I will attempt to get better pics!

The 2 1899 'closed' mouth pics I posted are not the same coin Here are 4 examples side by side for ease, there are many many more out there. The first 2 are 1899, the second 2 are 1900:

I'm sure you're right Rob, I find it impossible to think that it was by design, yet remains unlisted/unrecorded. Nonetheless, I find it surprising that there is no mention of it that I can find, given that the 'damage' changes the appearance of affected examples so noticeably! Seems to me that a lot of Viccy penny 'varieties' are down to damage rather than design ...

The only 'closed mouth' examples I have found so far have been from 1899 and 1900. Here's a 1900 sold through DNW: Anyone got an 'open mouth' 1900?

I thought of that Rob, and have been looking at those too. So far, I have only seen 'open-mouthed' examples, i.e. with tongue and/or bit missing, as below:

I will give that a try Mark, thanks for the suggestion. The more I look at examples, the more clear cut it seems to be - they really are one or the other!

I guess I am reluctant to even conceive of the idea that I might have spotted something that countless others have not, in over 100 years of microscopic examinations! But I suppose this is how varieties can come to light over time! I will study on-line images a bit more scientifically, perhaps we can have a straw poll on this forum? Does your Viccy old head crown horse's mouth look like this ('open' or perhaps 'no tongue or bit') or this ('closed' or 'with tongue or bit')? I have looked at about 30 so far (1897-1900), the ratio of open to closed in that small sample is about 3:1

Not mentioned in Davies either, don't know why I left it out earlier as I had checked it! It's probably nothing, looking at images online some 'appear' to have an open mouth and others do not, milling and weight check out.

I am in the process of upgrading my Viccy old head crown type from the coin on the left to the coin on the right. Nowhere can i see reference to a horse with a closed mouth vs an open mouth, any thoughts?? By nowhere, I mean not in any reference material that I have, i.e. Spink, Groom, Rayner & CCGB Here is the comparison, have I got a fake lurking?

I don't think you overpaid, but not a bargain, very common as I am sure you know. I am fond of nicely toned silver, as you might guess, hence starting this thread!

Very attractive Hudson!

I agree just.me, there is a distinction between coin types for circulation (even proof and Piedfort versions of same) and those that were never destined for circulation, in my view