Coinery

Due to the nature of counterfeits its rarely possible to identify the coiners responsible for individual coins. An exception: http://www.predecimal.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=6170&st=0&p=56938&fromsearch=1entry56938 Perhaps further studies may reveal other connections as such. That's the kind of stuff! Excellent, could read that kind of history by the bucket load! Good luck with it all!

Can anybody offer up a rationale for the consistently high prices that EdVII pieces go for? If I'm very observant (and patient), I can get a steal on eBay for just about anything, from hammered to Victoria but, Edward, he's a very different animal, that rarely produces a bargain!

Mostly you'll spot the fakes right away being of brass/copper/pewter colour - and those which are silvered are very rarely with complete silvering. The garnish is one of the ways to separate the various types of counterfeits not really to separate counterfeits from genuine as some counterfeits are cast hence details being identical to the genuine coins. (I'm not interested in the cast counterfeits as they are mostly small time effords and probably impossible to separate the moulds used). The domain name is a fanpage which I did from a legendary danish psych band. I guess its possible to make a separate domain but don't know how and I'll think people will find the pages no matter what they are called. I think the name has some impact on search results but you'll be able to google it anyway. Right now its all very incomplete and needs lots of work - but the great thing about a home page is you can work when you got the time and upload what you have - doen't need to be a completely finished thing like an article for a magazine. I've only just grasped the concept of collecting counterfeits! I've no idea why, but it never occurred to me that there were the dies to think about, and that it would be so specialised as to separate out cast types! It's got quite a bit of magic and mystery involved in it, when you start thinking about all that criminal activity going on in the back rooms of houses in barns in 17 & 18 hundreds! Is it possible to link dies to real names and court proceedings, hangings, etc? Would make a great museum display (and website), if THAT kind of history could be added to it...what a great book too ;-)

Phew, what a read! :-)

Whatever the politics of the CGS/London Coins situation, I can't see anything other than a small Arabic 1 overdate. I'd find it even more worrying that something as clear as this could be explained away as anything else. It certainly would leave me thinking I could buy nothing with even the slightest degree of certainty.

I think it's superb, nice and easy on the eye, not fussy! Is it really that simple to 'visually' spot the fake shilling by identifying the garnish in the NW quarter? Can I ask why you chose such an obscure domain name? Won't that impact on the searchability?

How could you possibly know that? I did say 'appears'. I noticed that, in most cases, when the sale of a lot was started with a postal/email bid that was then outbid in the room, there was rarely a counter bid from the initial bidder. This suggests to me that the maximum bid was used to kick-off the sale. You might interpret it otherwise? That does sound odd, but I do know from personal experience of London Coins that I have won many absentee lots below my maximum. Fair enough. I don't want to suggest anything other than that the process is far from transparent and that, by being in the room, I feel in control of my bidding. In the 10 or more auctions i've recently attended, I've definitely heard 'OK, I've got £75 with me, so £80 ladies and gentleman, who'll bid me £80?' Your top bid as an absentee has got to be the one you'd be pleased to win it at...not the 'sod it, I'll put £xxx on as my worst case scenario,' because likely as not it'll be your worst case scenario!

Of, course, CS3/4 and photoshop have their part to play, but still a very impressive piece of art.

When I think about how much of a struggle it is to take a photo of just 1 single coin, with the focus good across the entire coin, and replicate the colour in an honest way, I can do nothing other than marvel at the standard of the photograph alone. Imagine pulling that set out of the drawer when you're numie mates pop round for a glass of Bollinger and chips (with curry sauce and mushy peas)?

Does anyone know of the top literary and website resources for Edward VII colonial coinage?

Just a thought, if you are in possession of a 'reasonably' good fake, that you had no moral issue in selling as genuine, why not list your coin with a GENUINE image? Maybe this is where a lot of the fear stems from...the 'sh*t, I would never be able to spot that myself'! Maybe some images linked to fake sales are pictures of genuine coins, spreading fear and confusion in the collectors' circles? It's my recollection that the hardest thing for the forger to get right on these coins is the sharp, squared, lettering of the legends...they are never of the razor quality of the genuine article (at least all the one's I've seen...Seuk?). Also, the background in the reverse quarters was a stumbling point...can't recall why now, haven't bought one for quite a few years! The legends are the big one though, the one that rules out 99% straight away! The G Crown is shrouded in the mystery and legends of fakism, that's for sure, and has got stuck there! Good job too, they'd be worth considerably more if a more people had the confidence to buy them! I say that coming from one who holds none...I'll change my tune when I have a couple in the bag!

Good old olympic junk! Another nail in the coffin for twenty-first century CuNi!

Hmmmmph ...speechless!

The picture could be better but it doesn't look fake to me. There's a lot of fake 1818 and (more rarely) 1819 on ebay from time to time. Strangely I've yet to see 1817 and 1820. That is; of the type known to me - There may be other kinds of fakes around! Nor to me. It may have been cleaned or dipped but it looks ok. Went for a good price! I have to confess...uncertainty kept me off a dabble on this coin! It stayed around the 60 mark for a long time!

The picture could be better but it doesn't look fake to me. There's a lot of fake 1818 and (more rarely) 1819 on ebay from time to time. Strangely I've yet to see 1817 and 1820. That is; of the type known to me - There may be other kinds of fakes around! Thanks Seuk, Despite the poor picture, I couldn't believe the coincidence of the two 'pointers' that had been noted on the reverse of the 1818 fake, as mentioned above, being just about visible, in just about the right place...wouldn't hang a man on account of my flimsy evidence however :-) . Off the subject a bit, but do you have any convincing EdVII fakes/cont. forgeries in your collection? Is there anything to watch out for, that could fool? I've tried to buy a few of the better counterfeit EdVII coins on eBay, but can't get close...they seem to sell at a price that always surprises me!

Is it this one you had in mind Coinery? George II half crown thread Aye, thank-you! I copied off all the points and images of interest to my desktop, but never catalogued the exact source...lesson to be learned there!

I've been looking at this coin, purely out of interest, and because of all the 'bewares' that go with this issue. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170780911605?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 I looked back at some of the pictures I'd downloaded from this forum (I can't find the original location) but the reverse of the 1817 on ebay seems to match some of the pointers picked out on the 1818 reverse, namely the two marks over PE of pense. Any thoughts? The 1818 forum pics had all the little red arrows on it, it that helps anyone locate it! The attachment is the best I can come up with (sorry, wouldn't allow me to upload a word document with image attached - Error You aren't permitted to upload this kind of file).

A 100 year old, part-toned, lustre coin, doesn't mean it's free of 'sh**e,' this particular coin certainly wasn't! Equally, there are the invisible finger greasings that have been mentioned, a million things. I think it's just a mistake I'd hate to see happen to anyone else. It does make your blood run cold when something you hoped to improve upon, suddenly appears from the tissue a horror story. In 15 years I have not had the experience of snapping a 2x2 or capsule shut, thinking 'phew, that's done, I can just relax now, it's timeless!' I look forward to one day completing the process of handling, weighing, measuring, researching, and cataloging, with the ultimate satisfaction of decontamination, preservation, and final pleasure of snapping that coin shut, or storing it away, in a place where I can enjoy it and feel reasurred that it's in suspension! Paranoid? Maybe! Would be so good to get this one ticked off!

Thanks Bob That is good enough to me. Miracle cures just don't exist. A bit of hot soapy water,a softened cocktail stick seems to be the only remedy. A little tip from experience, and the reason I'm so much chasing a 'recognised' and scientific approach to this whole mystery of coin preservation (mystery in as much as not one of us on the forum have grabbed the gauntlet and stepped forward to state 'these are the facts!' ). There are some very big guns on here, writing reams from decades of experience, and still this subject has yet to reach a satisfying conclusion. That speaks more than a thousand words to me! Meaning, of course, it's still considerably unknown and misunderstood. I washed a lightly streak-toned EdVII penny a few years ago with soap and water (i forget the soap, lord i wish i could remember), it was a really nice toned effect (if it were possible for streaks of tone to be described this way) and had full lustre otherwise. Anyway, I dried this very nice coin off to discover the nice cloud-like wisps of tone had become purple, like some bad peroxide day in a hairdressing salon. We may get away with soap sometimes, but I would never trust it on anything with a micro-precious surface!

Worry not. Although olive oil contains oleic acid, any acidic properties are neutralised by the other ingredients. You can see this when mixing olive oil with vinegar (very much an acid) - the two will not combine at all, and separate out into layers as does oil on water. On the other hand you can mix vinegar and lemon juice with no difficulty : acetic acid and citric acid. I feel a bit happier, but what's the talk about coins getting darker over time when using olive oil? You really don't want that for your 1902 LT halfpenny that still retains a significant covering of only lightly toned lustre! I ask this in complete ignorance...how long have I got if I start wiping my light-toned copper with extra virgin before sealing them up in 2x2's Am I going to see a difference in my lifetime? Why hasn't the perfect product been developed, given the financial outlays involved in coin collecting?

Sweet Mary mother of Jesus! For the first time since I graduated, I glad of my Chemistry degree! Everything from acid baths to re-plating! And on the subject of verigris - two lines... "Rub with a fine cloth which has been treated with copper soap. Copper soap can be obtained from drugstores." ============================== Having now googled 'copper soap', all I'm coming up with is a fungicide... I wonder if that is what they mean?! Think I might just save myself £10.80 ;-) Does it say anything at all about a neutral preserver for coins? I just can get my head around the acidic olive oil thing at the moment, there must be an even less acidic 'grease' we can 'smear' on our coins? I've got my eye on a couple of books, I mean to get mine for £10.80 INCLUDING postage!

I have the coin packaged up at home ready to post back to the seller (I am in Australia until next weekend), he finally told me his address yesterday and has agreed a full refund, all going through eBay Resolution Centre. He claims he has had his own experts examine it and found nothing wrong, but if true they can only have been judging from the photos. I havent done this before and have a question - he isnt ging to refund me until he gets his coin back, what recourse do I have if he simply doesnt repay me after that, does anyone know? Does eBay step in? Thanks for any advice! Also, I have no idea how to check whether it's silver, does anyone know? I have to confess I have never had to send a coin back in these circumstances before, I'm as lost as you! I just hope you paid via PayPal? Even with registered post the guy could say 'you've sent me a washer, where's my coin,' so no real protection even with that! I don't think I'd buy a coin off eBay without using PayPal, unless I knew the seller, and received a consistent service from them. Re the silver testing...people will be bringing a crucifix to my 'van...but a micro-spot of silver testing solution on the edge of the coin, for the second or two it takes to confirm high-grade silver, is what I have done in the past with coins that have niggled me! I am more paranoid than most about even the smallest blemishes on my own coins so, I can reassure you, If you've got that hammered coin ready by a running tap and, the second the micro-spot of solution turns red, you plunge it into the flow and flush it well off, you won't even see a mark where the spot has been, nothing, no clean silver spot, nothing! All you are left with is a coin that you either finally feel happy about, or a potential fake. Of course there are many other factors, apart from silver content, but knowing whether it's sterling or not is a massive step forward on the Sherlock trail. Try some on the edge of a nasty old BV coin and see. I'd happily test a 1k+ coin with this method, if I was remotely unhappy about that aspect of it! Usual disclaimers, of course...at your own risk, they are acids after all!

What about mint lustre, has it had any negative effect on lustred coins? Have you ever come upon an example where it's had an 'odd' effect?

Certainly an interesting little shilling! Paulus, have you any means of checking whether it's silver or not? What do you intend to do with the coin? I'm still amazed at the level of input from the members of this forum! So much information, it's like trying to keep up with Facebook, which i tried for about 3 weeks to see what the fuss was all about, before realising how much meaningless drivel is on it! 'think I might go to bed now!' ...5 comments! 'sleep well'...'think I might too'...'lucky you, I've still got the plates to clear away'...'been a long day'...'me too!' probably 7 thumbs up as well!

I wonder if when we hit the CuNi phase a lot of the magic went out of of it all? No longer the treasure chests of pirates past, may as well be plastic now, with integral security chips. I think of how much more inspiring it must have been to be working with precious metals; the engravers, the mint workers, surrounded by all that gold and silver. The magic and mystery of man's second greatest attraction must have brought some special energies to the creative table? I know there are many, many, many, people who collect the post 1920 coinage, but I just cannot get excited about it! Do you think the mint cranks it up a gear for the modern gold and silver strikes? Do you think CuNi is a factor affecting inspiration?