Coinery

You have a razor shears? I've got an 18" Husqvarna!

I watched the first one and kept expecting (hoping) that Tony Robinson would pop up and punch her lights out. My 'favourite' bit of the first program was the incredulous look on the faces of the two Medical Consultants when The Woman had to leave the room on account of it being all too much FOR ALL OF US! The second program was excellent, I look forward to more scientific facts emerging from the ongoing investigation. Shame R3's not a cheap series to collect...will the prices go up?

Had my head in the book while you were responding! I was initially thinking inverted 8, but the reverse devices say 1569. Fortunately, the lions are the very distinctive punch 52 (which instantly gives us 69-72) and, as TGH has already pointed out, the coronet MM was finished in '70. The Lis are also identifiable as 34 (1569-1571). Also, the shield's right for the year, so 1969 is your year (as we can already see the 6). This reverse was the common pairing with obverse 2 (BCW CN-2). However, whilst it's not a recorded pairing (as many aren't, yet) the obverse Privy mark does look like it might very well be over a lion (BCW CN-1), but that is something that can't be completely confirmed without a die-match, which wouldn't be so difficult, as the Lion privy mark is much rarer. So, either: BCW CN-1:CN-i4 (coronet over lion obverse) or BCW CN-2:CN-i4 (straight coronet obverse) Your bust is 4B by the way Damned modern copies. They get everywhere. I did just recently pick up a rubbish 1571 copy (another year to add to the watch list)! Though the '71 was not really a 'genuine' counterfeit, I did get a PROPER Liz shilling forgery that seuk emailed me about! Not sure if I actually thanked you for that seuk? Thank-you! Just got it, Rob!

ARGENTUMANDCOINS I tell you why (IMO!) but you won't like it: 1, if the dealers send their coins for CGS grading, most (not all but most) of their UNC coins will be returned as EF, some as AUNC but some also as VF55. The same applies to EF, VF coins etc. Just ask Bill who already submitted around 2000 coins, or Divemaster. I have exactly the same experience. As NUMISMATIST said : quote "In fact I would say MOST Large Auctioneers and MOST large dealers, many being BNTA members seriously overgrade these days". I can confirm this from my own experience. Now when I am more familiar with CGS grading it takes me just few seconds on the coin show to see that the offered UNC coin would never ever make even a basic UNC80 grade... So instead of making vast profits they would suffer vast losses. 2, lot (not all) of coin dealers are not interested in a transparent coin market. With slabbed coin you can’t buy the coin as about EF and sell it as almost UNC and make large profit. As one of many examples – just recently I have noticed Victorian YH Halfcrown , sold in recent DNW auction (where described as GEF and sold for around 800,- pounds) on Coin Dealer website - described as choice mint state with price tag of 1500,- pounds. So either the vendor or new buyer was ripped off. DNW is happy with their profit, dealer is very happy with his profit and the buyer??? This is happening all the time and you have to realise that not all coin collectors are as experienced as lot of members on this forum and that it takes years to learn. In the meantime you rely on coin dealers and if you are not experienced enough you buy choice mint state halfcrown for 1500,- …. I wish CGS was around when I started collecting 20 years ago. 3, I do not understand your comment about “auction prices realized by the sister company of the slabbing firmâ€. Are you suggesting that London Coins is bidding against London Coins just to spend 500,- pounds on a coin worth 50, - pounds to show the public how good it is to have coin slabbed??? Yes they offer lot of slabbed coins in their auctions but if I want to sell slabbed coin I would certainly ask London Coins because I am sure that collectors who are interested in slabs are keeping eye on their auctions. I think your points 1. and 2. have a lot of merit Mike. There have always been apples in the dealer barrel that range from the rotten to the "over-enthusiastic", but a lot too - as you say - who are straight. But your point 3 could use some research on your part if you don't mind me saying. A company that slabs very ordinary coins and then (possibly) gets an employee to put them up on eBay with a lot of hype and vastly inflated prices (or bidding), to show the effect of slabbing on prices... well, I don't wish to be libellous, but it goes on. Thank you for your comments. You may be right and I am not going to advocate something I know very little about. Saying that I am not going to do any research in that respect - I rather invest my time in my hobby. I got involved in the discussion just because I have noticed that some of the members (which are usually strongly against slabbing) have very poor knowledge about the subject and I also felt that some of the comments towards CGS are unfair (when compared with my personal experience). Otherwise I am primarily interested in coin collecting - not slabbing! Around X-mas I have posted picture of George IV Halfcrown (my X-mas present, slab partially visible) and first reply was "Nice coin, shame it is in plastic coffin". I don't get it, I would never ever comment post from other member "Nice coin, shame it is not in a nice slab". Hope you know what I mean. I think your approach is entirely sensible, Mike, we are all first and foremost collectors and enthusiasts of all things coin! Speaking only for myself, I like both slabbed and raw, it really depends on my reason for buying it, or slabbing it. I have broke out around a dozen coins altogether, the 1951 6d I recently purchased from Ms Lockett is already out the slab, and waiting in a 2x2 alongside my other G6 coins for an eventual upgrade! It seems to me that this subject ultimately requires tolerance and sensitivity of preferences. It has bounced back and forth for many months, with very little change in anyone's opinion, leading me to believe nothing can be said to convert an intelligent individual one way or the other? Great debate, yet again, but the usual stale mate I think?

I'm just watching the follow-up Richard III documentary 'the unseen story,' and I am so glad to find that THAT woman has been effectively gagged by some excellent editing. The first programme was more 'reality TV' in style than a serious documentary, on account of her dramatic self-indulgences!

Cheers, Declan! Do you use the capsule/foam insert system on all your coins?

Had my head in the book while you were responding! I was initially thinking inverted 8, but the reverse devices say 1569. Fortunately, the lions are the very distinctive punch 52 (which instantly gives us 69-72) and, as TGH has already pointed out, the coronet MM was finished in '70. The Lis are also identifiable as 34 (1569-1571). Also, the shield's right for the year, so 1969 is your year (as we can already see the 6). This reverse was the common pairing with obverse 2 (BCW CN-2). However, whilst it's not a recorded pairing (as many aren't, yet) the obverse Privy mark does look like it might very well be over a lion (BCW CN-1), but that is something that can't be completely confirmed without a die-match, which wouldn't be so difficult, as the Lion privy mark is much rarer. So, either: BCW CN-1:CN-i4 (coronet over lion obverse) or BCW CN-2:CN-i4 (straight coronet obverse) Your bust is 4B by the way

It was a sort of 'oh, no, what have you gone and done, Colin' type of oooooooooooh! Colin the starter of the discussion!

Oooooooooooooooooooooooh Colin!

Fully endorsed!

This was just one example, obviously this is happening with coins worth tenths of pounds as well. Also don't forget that lot of people are looking for alternative investments for their retirement etc. I am not advocating them but surly they should not be ripped off just because they are not experienced coin collectors (IMO). That's fair enough, but I wouldn't buy a diamond from someone as an investment, without learning at least the basics necessary to buy diamonds! If however I'm buying a diamond because I like the purple flash from its 4th facet, and I intend to keep it for its beauty alone, then all I have to be concerned with is whether I'm happy with the price I paid, because I was a collector first and foremost. What makes for experience in coin collecting for me, is the ability to make fewer and fewer significant purchase errors, based on a number of factors, grade and price to name but two. Not forgetting there is also pleasure in this process...silly things like discovering there are actually 'raised' buckles on the boot of StGeorge on a 1935 Crown. You don't have that pleasure of discovery if someone else sells you a coin like a pint of milk. My advice to all juniors who want to learn the art of grading, is to buy (and look) at a large number of 'uncirculated' cheap coins (G6/E2), that's the best way to painlessly learn these things. It would seem a real shame to me to chuck a newbie into slab collecting, without really knowing what it's all about first (and that's not to say I'm totally opposed to slab collecting...I do actually kind of get it) You'll never come close to the joys of owning a classic car if all you've done is go out with a big wad of cash and buy the best E-Type you can find. Coin collecting is exactly the same in my opinion.

I would think that anyone with £1500 to spend on coins is not a junior collector, and should really know his own stuff, and be happy in him/herself that they are indeed looking at a Choice coin?

Are you sure about the CGS policy 'or if it suffers in the slab'? That seems like commercial suicide to me because, as you already mentioned, other entombed coins have historically been seen to suffer, and they don't seem to be doing anything differently, at least mechanically speaking! The long-term gaurantee of CGS's product, must be a concern, not only to the collector, but also to CGS themselves (if they are genuinely offering a life-time gaurantee on entombed state), as they must realise the potential risks of a claim like that? I can't believe they'd get the backing of an insurance company on such a point. I guess, as numismatist has said LTD, LTD, LTD! Also, Bill, I just wanted to say again that it's very kind of you to come on here and present the case of CGS, and also that I don't want you to think there is any kind of witch hunt in my statements, I fully appreciate you are just another collector, greatly interested in coins and the slabbing process.

The hammered thing must be new, I've never seen that on their site, nor ever seen a CGS hammered slab! Also, just as another point of interest, don't CGS slab on 'rainy summer's days' then? Do they encapsulate in specialist environments? Do they decontaminate the coins of all the environmentsl cancers pre-slabbing? I've often wondered what's being locked away with the coin to wreak havoc 20 years from now?

Starters? I thought this was a thread about fake hors d'oeuvres for a minute! Surely it's manes not starters? ..and they're off!!! Buggers all round! Better make that burgers all round!

Thanks for your input, Bill, be good to hear the follow-up! Just in support of Bill's & AC's point above, my 1950 NGC penny which was recently posted here, and freshly out of a slab, has the dreaded verd.! CGS don't slab hammered...yet! Can you ask if they ever intend to, Bill?

I guess in the absence of any competitor for UK coin slabbing, we just have to swallow whatever treatment we're dealt out! I suppose we could always vote with our feet? Not that it's going to make a lot of difference when there are others queuing up!

Difficult series, never ever bought one yet! Good link, though!

Having exactly this issue right now with a 1942 florin. I could buy hundreds like the EF one I received, which the seller is insisting is the same coin, despite the fact I've pointed to another of his listings that has an image of the coin I've got! I did get a 'perhaps you can give me a call to discuss this'? Which I duly did, without the call being answered OR returned! I even offered to post the coin on to the winning bidder of his other '42 auction that was due to finish, just to say us all a lot of time and wasted postage...but no!

Their eBay postage times are about as reliable as their completion dates for slabbing, I'm STILL waiting for my eBay purchase! They were also a month late, of an already lengthy time period, when I got some coins slabbed! They need some quality UK competition!

Great looking site, Tim, do continue to drop in every once and a while, we can never have enough experts of types on here!

Easy mistake to make when there's no initial cross or i.m. Too kind!

lightening response Clive, thank-you! Not sure what was going on there...I was reading it as LVND rather than LVNDE, meaning I was looking for some mystery moneyer beginning with E WHOOPS!

I can't find this one anywhere? Any suggestions or references would be very much appreciated!

I was watching this round the £194 mark, and didn't think it had much left in it at that point. The bust is excellent, the flan looked good but, the very poor legend, off-centre strike, and overall scruffy look, has me saying no bargain!