Peckris

The dates thing enrages me. I really cannot see the logic of starting in the middle (month) then going to the smallest (days) then ending with the biggest (year). Totally and utterly illogical. I once heard an American claim "it's because we say 'May 12th". Come again? It's just as common to say "12th of May"!! I agree, but ever noticed that the dates on newspapers is always in that style: ie: July 23, 2010, as opposed to 23rd July 2010. I hadn't until you pointed it out!

The dates thing enrages me. I really cannot see the logic of starting in the middle (month) then going to the smallest (days) then ending with the biggest (year). Totally and utterly illogical. I once heard an American claim "it's because we say 'May 12th". Come again? It's just as common to say "12th of May"!!

Interesting theory, but how does that explain the 'Tower Mint go slow' by the employees enraged at the idea that Mestrelle's 'milling machine' would put them out of work? And the fact that Henry VIII personally debased the silver of the realm, not his moneyers?

Off topic, but I've always wanted to ask an American about this. It seems reasonably clear that someone has sat down and painstakingly de-Frenchified, if that's a word, the English language. The obvious one is the OU that you have identified, but then there's Centre/center, Defence/Defense etc, etc. I have always assumed that this was something to do with the Louisiana purchase, do you know ? It's a mixture of things. In some respects the Americans use the old forms of English and WE changed, not them. Other examples are where we modified a word for specific reasons : the original word was 'aluminum', then Brits added an 'i'. Finally there was an American attempt in the 19th Century to make spelling logical, and hence the 'u' was dropped from colour favour etc, and some other changes, but the whole exercise wasn't gone through which is why there are still anomalies. The book to read is Bill Bryson's 'Mother Tongue' - it's all in there.

"Look son, that's your pocket money - take it or leave it."

Thinking aloud, Clive, on the assumption that banks hadn't been invented yet, do you know the actual mechanics of how coins entered circulation in this period ? Interesting question! It had never occurred to me before, but now you ask ...

Due in no small measure to the large numbers of American servicemen stationed in this country. I should have guessed!

I assume you're being ironic az? The thing is ghastly in every respect except the gold content (what a waste of gold!). The portrait is particularly hideous. If that thing came into my possession it would be melted down for its gold in no time

Not so. Silver coins were produced in great numbers from around 1942 onwards, and survive in huge numbers in high grade (partly due to hoarding when silver was replaced bu CuNi). It seems whatever else they economised over, currency was deemed essential to the war effort. That little group isn't worth much to coin collectors, but it migiht mean a great deal to any surviving relatives of the crash, and it is a historic and poignant story in its own right.

It looks like a short cross penny, and it appears that the obverse may say HENRICVS (Henry), but that's as far as I can go on this. If no-one more knowledgeable jumps in, I can do some research in Spinks using your picture.

I don't know whether there were regional variations, but in my area of West London, I must have seen no more than a couple of dozen well-worn veiled heads in the last two years of l.s.d. and perhaps half that of bun pennies. I wish I'd been where you were! I was in Bristol, and the average grade of Veiled Head I found was between VG and F. I would have given anything to find some decent bun pennies! The few I did find - apart from the odd 1890/1/2 in VG - were pretty much flat discs.

So true! Or, make sure it's strict BU. Or both

I may be wrong, but I'm sure I once saw a "check your change" small paperback booklet from about 1968, at one of the the Midland Coin fairs, and it referred to "Modified Head". Although I suppose that was designed for the wider public. Just checked mine, and you're quite right : it does, and yes, that's probably the reason. I also checked the 1968 Seaby price guide, which says "effigy".

To my eye it looks like a stain, or alternatively the coppery toning you quite often get on cupro-nickel. CuNi of 1947-1951 is particularly prone to copper streaking.

Yes, there's a few of those fantasy pieces around. That's very attractive - I got a very similar bronze dark proof fantasy 1788 halfpenny with exactly that same obverse. Got it on eBay for the issue price of £9.99 (no other bidders ). If yours wasn't too expensive, it's well worth it, as it is a very handsome piece.

I saw that specimen yesterday, and was admiring it. Another date and I might have bid for it. The likelihood is though, it's either an early strike, or the way it's been lit (looks like flash), or both.

Not quite true - there were precious few bun pennies, but there was a ton of Veiled Heads, as witness the bag of 'em I used for weightlifting in the late 70s!! Oh yes, we did! Or in my case, 5/- as that was the size of the bags of pennies from banks. And it was fun to look through them, though my haul wasn't that great to be honest. A handful of 1946 die flaw pennies (when no-one collected them) was probably the best I did. And one 1953 penny, rated much scarcer then than now. (I'm not counting Veiled Heads - they were as common back then as they are now). Pounce pounce! Actually Freeman came out that same year And Seabys did a great variation on their Standard Catalogue - a catalogue of base metal coins, plus tokens. PLUS, all the "Check Your Change" type booklets, which covered varieties (not always accurately - one of them listed 1860 as a rare date without distinguishing between copper and bronze!) Though interestingly, the guides all said 1926ME, so it must have been people writing for the wider public, assuming the WP wouldn't know what an 'effigy' was if it bit them!

This adds a completely different dimension. It's not only provenance, but it adds to the history of numismatics as well. Perhaps we should all write something like this when we sell a coin. Sadly I don't think many of our missives would survive though. I always write a ticket for a collection coin whether it is the Churchill crown or a unique coin. Details of the collection reference, ruler, denomination, weight, Spink/Peck/ESC reference number and any other important feature go on the front, purchase details and provenance on the back. Thankfully(?) I don't have too many two ticket provenances as I have difficulty fitting in more than 10 previous owners together with sale dates and lot numbers. I always pass on the ticket(s) if the coin gets sold. Hm, anyone interested in owning my FileMaker Pro record for a coin? It's all there - picture, date bought, where from, how much, condition, values in Spink each year since purchase, location, etc. One small problem, it is digital!

See if I understand - you want a type set of each major Victorian type, especially the coppers/bronze? Then your best strategy is to go for high grade coins like your 1899 penny, but stick to common years. So for the copper penny halfpenny farthing, that would mean 1853 or 1858. For bronze bun head, 1861 or 1890 (for farthings, 1884/5/6 are VERY common). For Old Head, 1901 (or 1899 as you've started there already!) If you decided to expand into silver, the Jubilee Head denominations for 1887 are very common, and for Old Head, 1893. For Young Head it's a bit more of a complex area, come back and ask if you get interested in those. If you buy an issue of Coin News you can find the details of most dealers in it, towards the back.

A picture / scan would be more than welcome

Hi Rob. The 1797 penny is around Fine condition (strict graders might say a bit less) and would be worth around a tenner. The 1858 is also a penny from the dimensions, and is around VF though a little grubby! The commonest varity is also worth around a tenner. There are several scarcer varieties but the coin would need much closer inspection.

I have a clearer lighter image that shows the loop, diagonal and point I described earlier.

The seller clearly didn't know what they had (if anything) as there's no detailed description. The buyer must have gone entirely from the photo.

You were in a 'guy shop'? TMI.

Perhaps its grumpiness was why it was phased out? I don't see why UKIP should be upset about rebranding the pound as a penny - they are great traditionalists and there is a lot more tradition in the penny! (I use the term "great" advisedly ) scott - the 'one penny decimal' may be doomed, but I was speaking of the denomination name, which I'm sure should live on, even in the commercial mindset of the Mint.