1949threepence

You could always check it against the specimen sold that day. It's very easily identifiable by the yellow smudge at the side of the King's nose - link Thing is, we buy so many coins over such a long period, that it's easy to lose track of where and when we got them, and especially how much they cost. Looking at a couple of my cabinet trays, I can remember where and roughly when I got most of them, but am a bit more hazy on the exact price of all but the most expensive. Obviously every fine detail of some stick in the mind more than others. But as our memories are not reliable, I keep a hard copy record of all my purchases, in the form of receipts. I print them off if e copies only, as internet records just cannot be relied on to stick around for any length of time. Blink and they've vanished into cyberspace. A hard copy paper record will not disappear (unless the house burns down), so forms a long term reliable record on precisely where and when you got the coin, together with its price.

Although Freeman says that a pattern penny was produced in 1887 in Gold, Silver, Aluminium, Copper (Bronzed Finish) and Copper. All vanishingly rare, or in the case of gold, probably unique.

"The clock I'm keeping" - that's because there isn't one. It'll probably be her Great Grandad's long lost trunk in the attic next.

It's on the same theme as that one of David Cameron:-

That's the kind of rain those stationary hurricanes just off the US Southern coast drop. Biblical levels.

For me personally, impossible to say either way.

I think I'm correct in saying that many of those 1860 pattern/trial pieces were indeed copper, and bronzed copper. Although I've no idea which one that is..... Pattern by Moore perhaps?

That was almost certainly your problem Richard. I too had serious issues with restoro, which I hadn't intentionally downloaded - but there it was anyway. Must have come wrapped up in something else. Similar effects to what you've experienced. I'd bet your PC will be running OK from now on. I wonder if it's some sort of scam whereby it slows down your machine then pops up as a cure if you're willing to pay - you might find this brief exchange about it, quite interesting - link Apart from the very obvious, PC diagnostics can be incredibly difficult. Sometimes the only way is to have it completely cleaned to flush out whatever has secreted itself away. These days I never download anything onto my PC. If there's anything I need I just install an app on my tablet and use that. Tablets and other mobile devices rarely get compromised in the way that PC's do. But the downside is that they're not nearly as convenient.

At the behest of your suggestion, I tried both. I got much further with Peck than Google, although still not clear what precise chemical agent was used, or exact procedure followed, to bronze the copper. But here is what Peck says at page 220 (last paragraph) of the 1964 re-print:- Not 100% crystal clear whether Peck was referring to currency pieces which had toned down, or to copper proofs. If currency pieces then other features can mark out the distinction between them and a proof. In the case of KP31, P1326, for example, the fact that the 0 of the date is incomplete and the 1 has no base serif. Also, the reverse is not inverted, which it is on the currency strike. Peck continues:- Rather an obvious point but worth repeating. At page 405, Peck states:-

Yes, that makes the comparison easier. Thanks.

I think that's right. I've spent much of today looking off and on at copper and bronzed proofs. The only truly consistent difference I can make out is that the bronzed proofs are slightly darker in finish.

This one is described as a bronzed proof, yet seems to have lustre. I suppose my underlying point here is whether it's worth buying another proof of the same date, on the basis that it's bronzed rather than copper? If it's a gilt proof, no problem as they are very obviously gilt.

Needless to say, you're both correct. But it's your reasoning I'm interested in. What is the identifiable difference?

..........in the absence of a reliable description? There obviously must be a way, but it's not at all obvious to me. Two pictures follow, the second one on a separate post because I can't get them small enough to get onto one post. One is a P1326 bronzed proof, and the other is a P1327 copper proof. Can anybody point to the difference? Neither of the coins is mine.

Slightly different as that became a national fact in being, against which it was literally impossible to do anything about. That's not the same as coercing a shopkeeper to display goods in metric weights, on pain of prosecution for default, when there was a traditional, established and perfectly viable system already in place, which the customers of private traders were not complaining about, and arguably most preferred. Sorry but the mantra of "you've got to this because we say so, and woe betide you if you don't", when there is no reasonable case for having to do so, goes right against the grain with me, and also many others. As far as I know, no legitimate and convincing arguments were ever put forward, propounding the positives of abruptly switching to metric and ditching imperial, merely "it's now the law", being enforced by some goon from the council.

Well in conclusion all I can say is that we've left the EU in accordance with a democratic mandate, and there's no going back. I'm not convinced that everybody under 60 does think in terms of heights and weights in metric. I'd naturally describe my height in feet and inches, and weight in stones and pounds. That's what I and they were brought up with at home, regardless of what is taught in schools. I suppose now that the generation under 30 are bringing up kids of their own, they probably will just be referring to metric heights and weights, and the old imperial will no longer be recognised. So your wish will be granted - eventually. I'm afraid I'm a bit of a Luddite when it comes to new things. Especially if they're imposed without consultation.

Why shouldn't they use what scales they like? The customer isn't being defrauded either way. The prosecution against Thoburn was based on EU law:-

what a hoot ......

Right now Harry Kane on 166, is exactly 100 behind Jimmy Greaves, 266, in goals scored for Tottenham. I don't think he will reach Greaves' total in his playing career, even assuming he stays at Tottenham. RIP Jimmy Greaves. A truly magnificent player and footballing legend.

That was the whole point. Lack of shopkeeper freedom due entirely to EU rules. Obviously customers can ask for what they like. Many of our drivers came from Poland whose driver crisis is worse than ours. The effect of Brexit is marginal at most. This would have happened even if we'd never left. The average age of a driver is 55, and many have used the pandemic as a reason to retire completely. I know for a fact how fed up to the teeth they were - not only with lousy working conditions, but also the fact they were held personally legally liable for any illegal migrants - not the firm they were employed by, but them personally. Border Force have issued fines of up to £20k even when the stowaways have been declared. An ex lorry driver in the local news round here asked, how many times were they supposed to check the vehicle, five, ten, twenty, a hundred times - and then risk violence from the migrants. He's now asking why Border Force aren't being fined for escorting them in - the irony is sick making for the drivers. Working conditions, wages, plus park up clean and rest facilities have got to be massively improved before new drivers are attracted in. It'd also help if regular toilet stops could be incorporated as many drivers develop renal problems in later life due to not being able to stop for hours to take a pee. No wonder these guys are leaving in droves. ETA: the last straw for many was that prolonged hold up just before Christmas last year when they were forced to hang around in their vans for days waiting for covid tests. The only people who brought them some warm food were the local Sikh Gurdwara, and the local mosque. Nobody else bothered. That's how much they mattered.

I'm afraid they did - and here it is in a good old pro EU Guardian link The officials themselves obviously weren't hired by the EU, but they were from the council acting on the EU's behalf, by proxy, with the acquiescence of our government. Yes, it was only weights and measures, and I agree that the current generations (including mine as it goes) was brought up on metric. But surely that's not the point. The underlying issue is one of freedom of choice and not being fined for using your measurement of choice in retailing goods. At the end of the day, both imperial and metric are absolute measurements and easily converted one to the other, in the same way as Fahrenheit to Celsius. Did you ever hear the one about the Labour MP going door to door before the 2010 election, and when he was defending the compulsory use of metric measurements. A constituent asked him what he weighed - "13 stone" came the reply - "OK", came the further question, what's that in kilos? MP didn't know. Nor for that matter did he know what his height was in metres. The lorry driver shortage is Europe wide. It has zero connection to brexit, but the pandemic aggravated an already existing problem - link

Ha ha - nonetheless, the bonfire of EU regulations is a good thing, especially when you read lines like this:- Very gracious of them. They also had an army of jobsworth council acolytes to rigidly enforce the rule. My own view is that it's up to each trader whether they use imperial, metric or both. I'd personally use both give that we've now got different generations familiar with one or the other.