1949threepence

The top pop trend Is insane. There are 70 points on the NGC scale, each one of which is worth 1.43% - a very small amount when one considers the extent to which subjectivity, inconsistency and carelessness must go into each grading. To pay thousands extra for a top pop is crazy, considering a) that it can be beaten, or b) that the grader may be having an off day/his colleagues are stricter/softer than him, has to be the height of stupidity, unless you are literally the initial seller about to make a killing from someone prepared to pay. The only true winners are those ex graded items from the first seller, who knows, that for a short time at least, he has the lead item. Comparison with the coins just under top pop would probably reveal examples that were superior to the current top pop.

A great shame in my view. Past sales documentation add to the entire positive experience of buying a new coin.

Unfortunately no. In fact there was no provenance provided by TheCoinery. In comparing, it was obvious that the coin was the same specimen as in the Sawden collection, so went from there. I really wish there was more provenance to coins such as this. Not sure all dealers take the issue very seriously.

.....and here it is. An 1860 restrike gilt copper pattern penny by Moore for Shorthouse. Very pleased. Peck 2115, Freeman 842. Provenance:- To Coinery N/K (lot 38 Coinery auction 29th July 2023 - link Ex: Ian Sawden collection (lot 157, DNW auction 12th October 2021) Ex: Colin Adams collection (lot 171, Spink auction 23rd July 2003) Ex: D.E.Magnay collection (lot 276, DNW auction 3rd February 1999: bt Seaby April 1980)

That's a great point. It's doubtful whether any of the 1853 proofs, other than the full sets, would have been issued rolling around loose in a plain envelope - or, if collected, that they would have been in a raw pile on a desk. Surely they would have been in some form of dedicated packaging, however rudimentary. You mention the plush case above, but it's likely that other forms of packaging would have survived given that some people tend to keep everything, and they might well have survived through the 170 odd years (or less) since. The psychology of the public doesn't change. Then as now, many would deliberately dispose of or quickly lose track of the packaging. Probably about half would diligently keep it. So it's quite surprising there isn't any meaningful evidence of such, with the exception of the original full set cases.

Actually, it's not a bad specimen. If I hadn't already got one, I might have bought it.

You may well be right. I can't speak for denominations other than the penny, but it appears there is only one confirmed 1853 bronzed copper with an inverted reverse penny. What I do wonder about is the number of en medaille 1853 copper proof pennies. There were only 40 proof sets minted, but there has to be more than 40 extant proof pennies even now. Possibly as many as 40 again. So what is the reason for them? Were they ordered separately by members of the public after the original sets had been issued, for those who couldn't afford a full set? I susoect we will never know the answers to thse questions unless, possibly, some obscure newspaper article turns up, or some official mint briefing is found.

Looking at it, I'm not sure it's linkable. Or if it is, it might be out of my skillset. Excellent and really interesting couple of articles though.

That might explain why things didn't accord with Rob's experience. Thanks for the extra info, Bruce.

Oh....right thanks. Not sure what went wrong there. Will have to pay more attention next time.

If you're working from a standard desktop PC, Chris, you should be able to see it at the bottom left of the screen a few seconds after clicking. Just click on it to read. It will in any case be saved in your downloads.

If it had just been £3, I'd have dismissed it as a minor anomaly, but as you can see from this extract from the invoice, it was considerably more than that. Out of sight is the £592 buyer premium.

Spot on Bruce. I actually found this out when I called The Coinery late yesterday and spoke to Guy. I'd forgotten, but last year I went through easy live auction because of technical issues (couldn't get sound) - hence the extra surcharge. This time I went throughThe Coinery's website so there will be no surcharge.

Thought it was too good to be true. Just received a revised invoice with the buyer's premium added, and had to pay a further £232.00. Apparently there is no seller's fee on items over £1000, and on this occasion the no fee was applied in the wrong place. I'll await with baited breath to see if an internet surcharge is also added.

Thanks, and also well done on your win, albeit not necessarily your No 1 choice. I received my invoice via e mail earlier on, and was very pleasantly surprised to find there was absolutely no premium payable. None - just straight hammer price plus postage. Whether that's re-couped via higher estimate ranges, I'm not sure. But it certainly stands in contrast to my previous win from The Coinery which had, I think, just under 20% premium and an "internet surcharge". That was May 2022.

Indeed so. According to the NGC rankings there are now 7 at PF66.

Hmmm......oh well, whatever. I'm just very pleased I managed to get the coin I was interested in today.

Well, whoever sold it, assuming they were the previous buyer at £10k, sustained a huge loss as it just went for £4,900 hammer at the Coinery live auction.

Realistically that only happens in George Floyd territory, where, rather than such polite and discreet questioning, he had some psychotic raving nutjob of a cop screaming obscenities and pointing a gun in his face, based on the assertion of a junior sales assistant, and he subsequently lost his life based on that - murdered. Of course, anybody with half a brain would first establish that the note was a fake, and even if it was, then entertain the strong probability that it was previously passed on in good faith to whoever subsequently decided to spend it, also in good faith (just as we did for many years with the numerous fake £1 coins) - as opposed to assuming that he's got a printing press in his back room. Not forgetting the actual hard evidence that the specific note in question was passed as payment by George, and not by another customer. I'd venture to say that in Rhodes at the moment, checking the actual validity of notes passed, will not be high on their list of priorities.

Not exactly anarchy at that early stage, but you need an alternative to electronic payments in case they break down. Notes and coins are infallible.

What happens when civil society breaks down, even just a bit, as in Rhodes. Nothing electronic works and cards can't be used, so they return to cash. A lot of the ATM's don't work either. So withdrawals in cash from a bank branch are necessary.

Some of them you now could obtain at the same absolute price you would have paid then - unadjusted for inflation. A BU 1953 penny being an example.

Folk do what they want to do. To be honest I don't know why anybody would want to go into politics these days, given the abuse and accusations they are subject to. Was very sorry to hear of his passing earlier, and sorry too for all the years of suffering and worry which preceded this (since 2014). He always struck me as a very decent guy. Condolences to his friends and family. May he rest in peace.

Very very interesting and informative. Thanks a lot.

Yes, saw that. The guy concerned must be very naive if he thinks that will fool anyone.