Gary D

There was a guy on the BBC this morning from the London Mint Office, that bastion of everything crap about commemorative coins I mean tokens, telling the public all about it and getting their web address in at least once in every sentence. I think they had got hold of some and were trying to pedal them for £50 each. Just look at ebay if you want one, there's usually dozens on there at any one time, going for anything from £10-£30. There's only an estimated 50-100 thousand of them so get one quick while you can. Gary

Yes that is both sides and I'm thinking slabbing it may increase it's value, the value of which I have no idea at present. Gary Gary, What's the story behind the existence of the double tailed penny? Was it made from two different dies. This seems likely as the two reverses are slightly different. If two dies were used then this could mean that there are two different minor varieties of the 1970 proof penny. The difference that I can see is in the pointing of the centre prong of the trident. On the left hand picture it seems to point directly to a bead, whereas on the right it seems to point to the right of the bead. Can you confirm this? If so, can anybody else confirm that there are two minor types of 1970 proof penny? That's interesting, I hadn't looked past it being a genuin error. The are no signs even under my works 20x microscope of any join either around the edge or inside the beading so I believe it's mint error. I will look closer at the pointing this evening when I get home. Gary

Yes that is both sides and I'm thinking slabbing it may increase it's value, the value of which I have no idea at present. Gary

I have been trying to decide if to have a bronze penny slabbed, one reason for my indecision is that I usually remove coins from their slabs when I recieve them. Another is the cost and practicallity of just slabbing one coin. Of cause the reason for contemplating slabbing is the possible enhancement in value.

Yes, I have all four types plus the two proofs and the Peck 2171 in my advatar. I thought my 3d collection was complete until about 3 weeks ago when Dave's varity book arrived. I then started looking for the sharp-edge 1949 which I came across at the Midland coin fair, the wallet is still in intensive care I also need to keep a look out for the 1967 minor variety. I have often wondered if there are two varieties of the 1953 proof as with the business strike. Just have got around to putting any effort into it. Gary

The 3d

Davies list for 1953 proofs two varieties of the halfcrown and shilling. I have had both varieties of the halfcrown for some time 2310 & 2311. Today I received the second variety of theScottish shilling so I now have both 2440 & 2441. Both the 2310 and 2440 are listed by Davies as unconfirmed. Another coin I received today which I wasn't aware of until receiving a copy of Dave book on varieties was a 1949 Brass 3d with the sharp edges. Peck lists this variety for1943 and 1948 but not 1949. Although a listed variety I believe it's not widely known and appears to be much scarser than the rounded edge variety.

Gary, This is a subject I brought up many years ago, when the Royal Mint ran a forum, but then closed it never to reopen when some idiot started posting all sorts of rubbish on it. I have a 1937 proof set, the coins of which I understand to be standard proofs i.e. polished finish all over and not cameoed (not sure if this is a word!). The crown in my set is exactly like this one, i.e. it has frosted devices, as has the Scottish shilling, unlike all the other coins. I tried getting an explanation for this, but opinion on the forum was divided over whether mine was a VIP proof or whether it was a fact that the early proofs were cameo and as the dies wore, the effect was gradually being lost. I don't personally buy this latter explanation but have never been able to figure why my set has a combination of two styles, unless, of course, it was a re-constituted one. However, this would still imply that the mint was producing both standard and cameo coins at the same time. Anybody got any ideas? DaveG38 Dave, My proof from a proof set is also frosted but by comparison to my PR67 which I beleive is a VIP, the frosting is not as distinct. Also little details are sharper such as the boarders around the shield. The proof has the occassional ding/roughness where as the VIP is perfect under the glass. The VIP books in Spink 2009 as £800 so I think the guy with the PR65 is being a tad over optimistic. Gary

Can I have some of what this guy is on How much!!!!! Firstly I don't believe a PR65 is a VIP issue and if so I'd better put my PR67 back in it's slab, must be worth some serious bucks.

At the time she was working out of Gibralter but as rumours go she was only fronting for some criminal type. Gary Hi, I know it was 3 years ago she was banned from eBay, but has anyone got an address for CAROLINE BROWN, who was INVESTCOINS 2003 , on eBay?

My criticism was not with the accurance of their grading just that the coins in the slabs where not what was written on the label. I made a mistake in my earlier post, it wasn't a 1912 penny but a 1902 which was graded as an MS64-Red for $50. In the slab was a low tide that books at about $300. I'm peachy about it but I bet the seller would not be impressed if they had known. The second went the other way. I took a chance on a 1935 deep cameo crown. To be a true deep cameo it would have to be a proof, not the raised edge pattern proof but a incuse proof, value, a great deal. In the slab was a raised edge proof which I promptly returned for a refund. Gary

I'm a bit leary about the accuracy of slabs. A few years back I snapped up a lovely red 1912H penny for a few dollars because it was wrongly accredited. I also recently returned a proof crown that was again incorrectly accredited. USA slabbing companies are rubbish at non US coins.

Looking at the rear it looks to me as though it could be a button.

You need to check the thickness against a normal penney, also the weight as someone may have just erased the reverse.

That's interesting. I checked mine out, only got 2 and they are both wide rim reverse. Something I did notice was that the observe side the rims are much thicker than the 1953, 1955 and 1956. I wonder if there is a narrow 1955 obverse. Must keep and eye out.

Re credit card advice, I do exactly that and on the one occassion I needed it by being tucked up by a seller I got £150 back from paypal but the creditcard company wasn't interested.

Now Freeman give a different explanation, and I quote "During the war, tin became extremely scarce because of the Japanese occupatin of Malaya, and the percentage of that metal in the bronze coinage was reduced from 3 to 0.5. Bronze of reduced tin content tones to a pinkish shade, and, in order to maintain the usual appearance of bronze coin, the pennies of 1944-46 were treated with 'hypo'" Gary

Just a normal 20p for 2008 and 2009. New design commonly known as a lions arse.

Although Freeman doesn't specify I assume the figure quoted is for the number minted of this type. Also assuming that this type was not identified until the early 1970s, that's 60 years of circulation. I know that even back in the mid to late 60s when I started collecting from change the occassional vicky pence and more often eddie penny turned up in the change, it was probably less than one in a hundred so out of the 12000 max there can't be too may put away. So no more than a few tens of F-169 in existance is quite possible.

The primary question with ANY of these "rare" varieties is not how many were minted, but rather, how many survived in an identifiable condition, so as to be of desirability to a collector....... Sometimes, the only numbers that we can base any calculations of rarity upon are the number of specimens that are known, and not estimated mintages..... Not talking from personal knowledge I get the impression that this coin and perhaps the F192A were quite late discoveries, as they seem to only turn up in vary circulated condition only. Freeman 2006 quotes them both in fine only. This would allow the vast majority of them being lost/melted before they were dicovered.

I suspect Michael Goulby has 1 and the British Musium plus mine so we are up to the 6 now, must be some more out there. Gary, i don't suppose you have a spare 1908 164A tucked away somewhere

This arrived a couple of days ago, fills a gap in my collection nicely. Any opinions to how rare they really are. Freemam quotes R9 2000-7000 minted but Michael Goulby quotes "appox 6 known" I suspect the true lays somewhere between the two. Perhaps I should conduct a poll. I known at least two forum members have one so I suspect 6 is a bit of an under estimation.

I'm a little surprise that given the number minted there are no varieties especially as they managed 4 halfpenny varieties for that year

14kg of scrap bronze must have a value

That's been machined I'm affraid, not an error.