Zo Arms

Could someone confirm my ID on this please. I think it's reverse L. Gary kindly forwarded the Draycott articles, which is where I found the pointings. A of half to a tooth.

For those interested, heavy copper price at EMR was £4.51 per kilo this last week. Best price I've had for a long time. There will be a new weekly price from Monday but likely to be similar, maybe. Welcome touch just before Xmas.

Exactly the same at the Portsmouth EMR. Another guy weighs in the bronze there. Saw them at the bottom of the bin. Health and safety prevented a rummage. I recall Mike's thread some months ago wondering how much had survived post melt and I commented then that I thought the percentage was dwindling rapidly for this very reason. We may get to a position whereby when a new variety is discovered, a Gouby X say, there is very little left to sort through.

You say that you have many dot/comma pennies. If it's no trouble, would you mind looking to see what percentage have a die crack present, please? And if everyone else could do the same please. Perfectly round holes near a die crack. As a collective of the top coin experts, with a combined collection of the best coins to be seen, it should be possible to establish whether the dot is deliberate. And not just pennies. The theory should apply to all denominations. Apologies if I've become boring.

Scrap copper prices are on the up. Weighed in last Monday and got £4.20 kilo. Previous Friday, ie 3 days before was at £4.09. Bronze coins weigh in as heavy copper. Just a tad below bright wire which is the best grade. I weigh in at EMR. European Metal Recycling. It's the people that the side street scrappies go to, so cuts out the middle man. They set their prices for the week, on a Monday.

I think someone has found one recently. Probably Pete. I do remember that it was a beauty. You'd not need another!

Not as scarce as first thought. R17. Now R7 I believe as more turn up. I've boosted the population to the tune of 4. All lower grade though.

eBay is full of surprises if you look.😎

I'm pleased that I prompted you. And a bargain too. You'll be searching for a Gouby X next then?😎

I don't usually have anything of interest to show but I was quite pleased to discover this, amongst some eBay tat, at the weekend.

I think I'd be slightly suspicious. Sellers feedback would be hugely off-putting for me. 10 negs, 42 neutral. Doesn't instill confidence. May be wrong tho.😄

I agree that they appear to be in different locations but I think that that is due to camera angle. Using the same logic, from the photos, it could be argued that the angle of the E to a radial line, on both coins is different. And yet we know that they are the same.

It is this treatment exactly that I believe is the origin of many of the dot varieties. The visible evidence of die crack remedy. Plausible?

Would you be able to re photograph please Bob? I appreciate that you said that it's a difficult operation but I seem to remember doubt cast in a previous thread.

I've suggested that the crack appeared first. A hole drilled in front of the crack will delay its travel and prolong the dies life. I'm also suggesting that this is the reason for most of the dot varieties. 1897, 1909, etc. A man made hole or resultant dot, to address a die crack. Terry's double dot serif 1897 penny along a die crack could be a multiple attempt.

Thanks for the photos Bob. You note that the apostrophe has a die crack. Would you say that the crack caused the dot or that the dot could have been drilled into the die to slow the cracks progression?

That's the one. Thanks. What's your opinion of these dots all being man made holes to delay the travel of a die crack?

I'm sorry. I'm that computer literate.😕 Would some other kind soul oblige please?

Your 1897 high tide double dot serif. F148. And I've spotted that Ian (Alf) has an 1858 penny with a round dot and a die crack. I've entered 'dot penny' into the search bar and a host of coins appear, all with round dots and die cracks. So rather than the die crack forming the dot, isn't it possible that the dot was drilled in, to delay the die crack. And prolong the life of the die? Most die cracks appear around the legend, as do most dots?

Dot and a die crack

I think that, in conjunction with this thread, Terry's thread titled 1897 penny double dot serifs should be read. Two or more round dots following a die crack in the legend.

Terrysoldpennies has an unlisted 1934 penny with a dot and a die crack. More pennies. Bottom of page 134. I must learn how to do links.

A dot and a die crack