Zo Arms

Scrap copper prices are on the up. Weighed in last Monday and got £4.20 kilo. Previous Friday, ie 3 days before was at £4.09. Bronze coins weigh in as heavy copper. Just a tad below bright wire which is the best grade. I weigh in at EMR. European Metal Recycling. It's the people that the side street scrappies go to, so cuts out the middle man. They set their prices for the week, on a Monday.

I think someone has found one recently. Probably Pete. I do remember that it was a beauty. You'd not need another!

Not as scarce as first thought. R17. Now R7 I believe as more turn up. I've boosted the population to the tune of 4. All lower grade though.

eBay is full of surprises if you look.😎

I'm pleased that I prompted you. And a bargain too. You'll be searching for a Gouby X next then?😎

I don't usually have anything of interest to show but I was quite pleased to discover this, amongst some eBay tat, at the weekend.

I think I'd be slightly suspicious. Sellers feedback would be hugely off-putting for me. 10 negs, 42 neutral. Doesn't instill confidence. May be wrong tho.😄

I agree that they appear to be in different locations but I think that that is due to camera angle. Using the same logic, from the photos, it could be argued that the angle of the E to a radial line, on both coins is different. And yet we know that they are the same.

It is this treatment exactly that I believe is the origin of many of the dot varieties. The visible evidence of die crack remedy. Plausible?

Would you be able to re photograph please Bob? I appreciate that you said that it's a difficult operation but I seem to remember doubt cast in a previous thread.

I've suggested that the crack appeared first. A hole drilled in front of the crack will delay its travel and prolong the dies life. I'm also suggesting that this is the reason for most of the dot varieties. 1897, 1909, etc. A man made hole or resultant dot, to address a die crack. Terry's double dot serif 1897 penny along a die crack could be a multiple attempt.

Thanks for the photos Bob. You note that the apostrophe has a die crack. Would you say that the crack caused the dot or that the dot could have been drilled into the die to slow the cracks progression?

That's the one. Thanks. What's your opinion of these dots all being man made holes to delay the travel of a die crack?

I'm sorry. I'm that computer literate.😕 Would some other kind soul oblige please?

Your 1897 high tide double dot serif. F148. And I've spotted that Ian (Alf) has an 1858 penny with a round dot and a die crack. I've entered 'dot penny' into the search bar and a host of coins appear, all with round dots and die cracks. So rather than the die crack forming the dot, isn't it possible that the dot was drilled in, to delay the die crack. And prolong the life of the die? Most die cracks appear around the legend, as do most dots?

Dot and a die crack

I think that, in conjunction with this thread, Terry's thread titled 1897 penny double dot serifs should be read. Two or more round dots following a die crack in the legend.

Terrysoldpennies has an unlisted 1934 penny with a dot and a die crack. More pennies. Bottom of page 134. I must learn how to do links.

A dot and a die crack

More pennies thread. Top end of page 123.

The idea came from a conversation around 40 yrs ago, with the guy that apprenticed me. How would you stop a crack from traveling in a pane of glass. Although not practical or easily achievable, a round hole in front of the crack would halt or delay it.. Do any of the other dot varieties have an adjacent die crack? The 1909 N dot, 1875 cannonball, 1946 dot dash?

Sorry. You're right. Should have written it first. It's there now. Ready to be blown out of the water.

Hi. Welcome back. This is a thought only, open to discussion or ridicule, viewed from a carpenters point of view. Here goes. Reverse B. Quite happily churning out pennies. It's getting on a bit and a small die crack appears. You need to prolong its life for a while because the new reverse C die isn't quite ready. To prevent the crack traveling further, you drill a small hole just in front of it. This will stall the cracks line of travel. Not prevent it. Just stall it. A perfectly round hole. Or dot. Fill the crack in as an added form of strength, clean it off and away you go again. A dot penny. Hole fills with grease and gunk and becomes the shadow of the dot. You can see it on some 97's in the right light. Can't feel it as raised, but you can make out where it is. After a while the die crack continues its travel. The dot hole deforms as a result and you're left with Jerry's penny. But you've achieved your aim. You've prolonged the life of the die. The new reverse C is now ready and production resumes as before. I'm sure that this theory is full of faults and assumptions but it's food for thought. Bob.

I've had some thoughts on this dot puzzle for quite some time now. Rather than clog up this thread, I'll elaborate on a thread I started back in 2017 entitled: 1897 dot penny. Advice needed. In the beginners area.