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When I first joined this site I met Peter PWA1967 and he told me I should speak my mind on the forum but carefully / thoughtfully does it. I am probably going to be locked in the virtual "Stocks" for what I am about to write and have Cabbages thrown at me but here goes . . . . . Being a Yorkshire Man you will know I am careful with my money. Like you I do not like to pay for some thing especially when you are used to receiving it for free. The old CGS site is now closed, gone and the new site is accessed via the London Coins site and they are still in process of making live some of the smaller, less used facilities. Yes £99 is a lot of money and I thought long and hard about it before sending my £ 99 to them but this is for a year and breaking that down to £ 8.25p per month it is not an extravagant amount of money when you consider a coffee and a bun from Costa costs over a tenner. I am passionate about my pennies and as I am a variation collection collector the information held on the new site is very useful to me and whilst the site was off I must admit I missed the ability to access the information held within the site. Apart from this variation information on the site, being able to view my coin collection in the various lists like denominations or monarchs is pleasing and helps me plan what my next purchase will be. There is always another coin. My Wife calls me a "Coin Addict". Lets not get onto Wives and coins. One other important point is that as new coins and new variations are discovered they are quick to put these on the site. I like my coins in their "coffins" or slabs for several reasons: Have you ever dropped a coin and been rewarded with an edge knock or worse ?. I have dropped several slabs on the floor with no damage whatsoever. I also appreciate the fact that in the past I have purchased coins which were labelled "UNC" only to find out later that they were A/UNC or lower. At least with the slabbing you have the grade what it says and should this ever be wrong you have their guarantee of a full market refund. A cautionary tale is that whilst a slab does float its floatation buoyancy is dependant upon the coin within. I can tell you that half sovereigns DO float in their slabs where as a full sovereign DOES NOT float. I know this as several of my slabs went into the river Ouse from my boat and the floaters we all half sovereigns. For the REAL coin seekers there are several sovereigns in the River Ouse outside the Kings Arms in York !!! Grading fees are always a topic of conversation. I would like mine done for free but it does cost money for wages, admin and also the slabs, labels and actual grading time. I have previously spoken to two of their graders and they told me its not just have a peek and guess / assess the grade. The year and denomination / monarch is a no brainer - we can all do that. Firstly they have to decide exactly which variation of the denomination for that year it is and also if it is a NEW variation. This can take some time bearing in mind the pressure they are under and the *ollocking they would get if they miss some thing. Then they have to assess the actual grade. They have a benchmark set which I have seen myself and this does help them decide on the grade. Then the coin goes to the second grader who basically does the same job again and the second grader gives their grade. Now they have two numbered grades, probably, hopefully both the same number. The coin and both graders numbers then go to the final grader who makes the final call upon the grade - A consensus of opinion is made is there is a difference of numbered grades. Now the coin has to be fitted in the slab, label attached and the UIN info uploaded - All for £ 15.75p. I believe this £ 15.75p covers all coins valued up to £800. I believe the maximum grading charge is £90 at a rate of 2% so that's up to a coin costing £ 4500. If you can afford a coin for £ 4500 then you can whinge about £ 90 . . . . Also its a business not a Non Profit organisation. How many of us would want to or could afford to work for free ? Coins that are not British cost a flat fee of £ 15.75p so If you collect other than British coins you will not pay more than £ 15.75p - that is my understanding. I believe in slabbing. Slabbing is HUGE in America and what happens over there usually happens in England. To sum up and this is the bottom line: We are coin collectors so we buy / trade coins. Do you want to be able to see ALL your coins in list format with photos ? Do you want to buy a coin that is exactly the grade / variation you want it to be and if not have the confidence that if it is not you are covered by their guarantee ? Do you want in depth information about the coins you have, their values and also their variations ? Do you want to damage your coins when you drop them and you will drop coins ? Finally and very important buying a slabbed coin is so much easier than buying a raw coin as you know exactly what you are going to get before you part with your money. I have now put on my Tin Helmet and Bullet Proof Vest and I await the back lash !

In the Tony Barter book there are pictures descriptions of fifty three different Pennies .

I think firstly i'm going to mention the valuation, the company formerly known as CGS values their product, the valuations don't appear in any publications, so therefor it's their own opinion which doesn't match the market valuation, how many times have you purchased a CGS coin at say an 85 or so and paid the exact CGS valuation for it? The next thing from your post is the ability to view graded coins and their valuations within CGS, this was a free service and had run for several years or since conception of the company the bottom line for the change/charge is that Stephen Lockett thinks that people are undermining his other business of London coins by buying/trading their CGS graded coins. Do i want to see all my coins, this is a curious one, because i take all of my pictures i can see ALL my coins on my macbook anytime i wish without have to pay £99 fee for the privelidge, how can London coins stop you from y=taking your own pictures in a slab and posting it wherever you wish, this point i do find silly, coins can be swapped/traded by the owner of the coin regardless if it's slabbed by CGS/PCGS or NGC, those last 2 companies don't charge you to view their population reports. I don't think anyone is against anyone paying the fee, after all, it's your cash to throw around anyway you see fit, i just see the whole thing as an attempt to stem a flow that Stephen Lockett saw, the other thing that irks me about the whole thing is that it was supposed to be under new management, but it's still the same people, so i can't understand why the lies...... There is a huge conflict of interest with CGS and LC, they can grade their own coins for sale and slab what and how they see fit and charge you the earth for that, just saying, i've personally nothing against your post or how you spend your money, i'm only interested in coins and that people don't get ripped off (by anyone) or screwed by buying fakes etc.... In 10 years that £99 fee would have bought you a nice coin, but by buying into their regime you'll be over a barrel because you'll have so many slabbed by then that'll you'll have to continue even if you don't want to Peace

Here is my only example of florins of this period a 1916. Please forgive the photo as I am so used to working with Bronze and find silver is a totally different animal to capture correctly. The coin is much nicer in hand.

I have just received one in the post Brian that is the same

what it is, is a knackered die, look at the crack across the neck, to me the letters look underlying, rather then double struck. if you zoom in you can see doubles on the first Letter in GEOR, the R and X in REX, to me the consistency isn't good enough for double, it might well be doubled as well, but there is a clear 8 over another 8, as for the 9, its over another 9 if anything.