All Activity

Would you agree in the attached image there is no crossbar? The question implies I dont think there is however I was asking simply for other's thoughts. The reason the image was cropped and rotated was to simplyfy the presentation of the letter and into correct orientation.

Yes there is a documented 1860 2+D variety BP1860JB V over inverted A.

Was not my intention to mislead, and for that I'm sorry. The coin is 1860 2+D.

I don't collect bronze, but I think in general, the rule is that the coin is not an error or variety unless there is convincing evidence supporting the claim. Otherwise, the number of imaginary errors / varieties would be huge. So if the letter is supposed to be a V, then it is just a V. The illusion of a crossbar (which is faint and unconvincing) can be caused by say a die crack for instance. If the letter is supposed to be an A, then it is just an A and the faint cross bar could be due to a partial die fill for instance. However, if the variety is documented for that specific coin type, then it is worth investigating more closely. But convincing evidence is still needed. It's like asking a doctor if a new rash is cancerous. They would say don't be silly as it can be caused by a variety of common things. But if someone has already been diagnosed with cancer and gets a bad rash, then the doctor would work on the assumption that it is related to the cancer if a rash is a possible symptom.

Hmm, yes the presentation of the photo was somewhat misleading. If it’s a V, then the default position is that it remains a V despite the photographic ambiguity. I did however examine the possibly unique 1860 ‘V over inverted A’ when it came up for sale a few years ago and thought it looked good under the loupe. So maybe worth a closer look under a microscope if it’s an 1860, probably not if later. Jerry

Sorry i thought from your original post you were looking at a picture and were asking the question as you DIDNT have the coin in hand. "Would you agree that the attached image has no crossbar" Yes i dont think a V has a crossbar 👍 Some people on the forum know why i look for coins everyday and flip for a profit, but dont feel as if i need to explain myself.

100% I just research what I come across and not search for anything in particular. Ofcourse il look for the recorded types, I will also look into anomalies. The coin from this post it was purchased directly, given how cheap it was, worth a look in hand. I know some of you flip coins for profit, I dont and the search, research, success and failures are all part of the fun. Its's not work in the sense of working for money, so as long as I'm enjoying the hobby not alot else matters.

I think you’re better off either buying them or don’t, having the coin in hand rather than asking questions from a photograph. I am sure everyone on the forum who collects copper/bronze from a picture has thought the coin was something it wasn’t. Hope that makes sense, people have looked at bronze pennies for years and although hundreds not recorded it’s because the tiny differences are not really relevant. Cgs when they were slabbing pennies had over 80 just for 1860 and if you want to take it so far then my own opinion is your doing a lot of work finding and buying pennies that nobody else would be interested in. Maybe study the Gouby book as there are plenty in there recorded that you can look for and recorded being more than one of each rather than something struck in error like a random flaw, dot or die crack or tiny difference in date width. As I mentioned you can take it as far as you want, just ones like 1902 pennies there are over 20 and yet most you can’t see with the naked eye 😃

Here is my coin versus a normal example of the same pairing, we see the exact same configuration. How can that be? Is that not a huge coincidence The 1860 (Gouby G+d; Freeman 4+D) – I over T in BRITT shares the exact same configuration.

I made an interesting observation that would appear to support the coin in question could be I/T based on die characteristics observed on the 1860 (Gouby G+d; Freeman 4+D) – I over T in BRITT compared to a standard 4+D coin And the coin in question versus other normal exmaples of the same pairing. The 1860 (Gouby G+d; Freeman 4+D) – I over T in BRITT type shows the First T of BRITT Tilted and the I/T is lower than the first T in BRITT. Please see the attached image to better understand my poor effort in explaining this. This is exactly the same for the coin I have its not a 1860, but after studying all the other die pairings of the coin in question I have found the same configuration. The coin from this post in question shows the tilted T lower I the same as The 1860 (Gouby G+d; Freeman 4+D) – I over T in BRITT. And the rest of the same pairing standard coins don't show the tilted T in Britt or the I of Britt being shorter.

Hmmm, ok…I’m starting to feel I must be out of touch, that all 3 of the posted coins are marked-up at double their value, yet they wouldn’t be prepared to accept market price on stock that has sat around for a while? Anyway, the post was simply an aside, light coining banter, nothing more. When that Edward I class 1c penny has sold, they’re more than welcome to sell my two! Unfortunately, I’ve already parted with my 1700 shilling for £480, so I might have to sing for the remaining £500 😬

@Coinery At first blush, it may appear unrealistic. However, it really depends on how you go about collecting, what you collect or even might consider collecting. Most collectors can and should develop a numismatic point of reference based on experiences… which include the coins seen, the state of preservation, and how often they are offered for sale in the condition desired. Frankly, the best coins I own are the ones I really was not actively seeking at the time I decided to buy them. This really turns into recognizing opportunities but not everyone wants to buy a straw hat in January.

Maybe it’s just your natural approach to things, but I can’t imagine for a second it’ll encourage free unguarded comments going forward, that’s all!

My intention was to keep it simple, and not let any other factors influence the core question about the possible crossbar or not. Jerry awnsered on the basis the letter in question was the letter A. My response was simply to indicate its actually V. I dont think Jerry will take offence, I hope he wont I dont really see why he would. That certainly was not my intention. In either image the question remains the same, but does either image receive the same response?

@Coinery A 50% reduction is not in the cards and I suspect an offer of 50% would not be well received. CNG is well respected and offer a range of World/Ancient Coins at various levels. Marketing coins and the way coins are sold has changed dramatically…especially in recent years. And in part it seems to be a Thermidorian response in an effort to keep up with technology. Certain coin marketing seems to be geared to those that seek instant gratification instead experiencing a protracted hunt to find certain coins. And that instant gratification extends to buy it now options that has a premium. I prefer to see coins in hand before I buy… obviously that is challenging especially when it comes to coins that are seldom offered.

No, just that it’s a very juvenile way of communicating with adults. We’re all interested in these things, but this definitely fell short of the way I like to discuss things with others.

I'm asking whether you agree or not the initial image does not show a crossbar, based on the possible faint line visible.

sorry you feel that way. The question remains the same.. I did not ask about V or A rather do you agree there is no crossbar.. Interestingly do you think the response would of been different with the second image?

Sorry i am a bit thick and perhaps dont understand 😀 Are you asking why a V doesnt have a cross bar ?

Gosh, let’s be straight with each other, how is that going to encourage future comments on your posts? That’s ridiculously underhand!

Thank you for the response. Its a V not an A !

I think you’ll find a crossbar there in the hand, under the crud. I have hopefully bought several over the years and they have all had faint crossbars (under the microscope) due to die fill. I doubt that any master die was ever created using an inverted V for the A, it’s simply that some of the many working dies created from each master developed die fill in use causing the crossbar to become very faint or absent. It is possible that some filled dies were re-punched with an inverted V for the A - the use of I, F, L etc for partial letter repairs seems well attested (see Gouby) but this is part of normal die management and should not be regarded as erroneous, though particularly obvious repairs can achieve collectable status. Jerry

That’s an exceedingly unrealistic position you’re holding there! Statistically the chances are very high, so do you buy what is currently available or not?

More than double their market value in these cases, I’ll stand by the post, $/€/£ conversions or otherwise. @coinkat do you think they’re pricing these in expectation of walking away with 50% of the asking price? What surprised me most, and the reason I shared this post in the first place, was my discovery that CNG are actually on eBay at all, it seems a little beneath them, especially with such incredulous pricing. They’re a serious and respected numismatic mainstay, aren’t they?

As the title says. Thank you.