davidrj Posted October 9, 2013 Posted October 9, 2013 My snipe got blown out of the water on this one,Yes a nice grade open 3, but what's going on wiyh the shield protrusion opposite the lighthouse? The rocks look a little odd for reverse g tooDoesn't look like a die clash Quote
Rob Posted October 9, 2013 Posted October 9, 2013 Is the 3 over a 2? The surface of the 3 and surrounding field make it worth checking. Quote
davidrj Posted October 9, 2013 Author Posted October 9, 2013 Is the 3 over a 2? The surface of the 3 and surrounding field make it worth checking.All we have is the seller's photo, so unless a forum member shelled out the $770 we'll never know Quote
azda Posted October 9, 2013 Posted October 9, 2013 Is the 3 over a 2? The surface of the 3 and surrounding field make it worth checking.All we have is the seller's photo, so unless a forum member shelled out the $770 we'll never knowWe can always go back and check for Feedback in a few weeks to see if anyone knows the buyer Quote
Accumulator Posted October 13, 2013 Posted October 13, 2013 Only just noticed this thread. The metal around the rocks looks like it might have been damaged slightly, but otherwise it matches my own open 3 (although yours is a better grade!). Here's mine for comparison: Quote
RLC35 Posted October 13, 2013 Posted October 13, 2013 My snipe got blown out of the water on this one,Yes a nice grade open 3, but what's going on wiyh the shield protrusion opposite the lighthouse? The rocks look a little odd for reverse g tooDoesn't look like a die clashDavid,In Michael Gouby's book, he shows a 1863 (BP1863Ab) that has protrusions like the one on the shield above, but they are on the arm, just above the shield. Quote
davidrj Posted October 13, 2013 Author Posted October 13, 2013 (edited) Only just noticed this thread. The metal around the rocks looks like it might have been damaged slightly, but otherwise it matches my own open 3 (although yours is a better grade!).Sadly mine is very low grade, was well and truly outbid on the one in this threadDavid,In Michael Gouby's book, he shows a 1863 (BP1863Ab) that has protrusions like the one on the shield above, but they are on the arm, just above the shield.My thoughts too Bob, I actually spotted the shield protrusion before I noticed the open 3, the seller only noted the open 3 and edited his listing a day after I i put my snipe in Edited October 13, 2013 by davidrj Quote
RLC35 Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 Only just noticed this thread. The metal around the rocks looks like it might have been damaged slightly, but otherwise it matches my own open 3 (although yours is a better grade!).Sadly mine is very low grade, was well and truly outbid on the one in this threadDavid,In Michael Gouby's book, he shows a 1863 (BP1863Ab) that has protrusions like the one on the shield above, but they are on the arm, just above the shield.My thoughts too Bob, I actually spotted the shield protrusion before I noticed the open 3, the seller only noted the open 3 and edited his listing a day after I i put my snipe in Here's mine David. Yours is better. I got mine off of Azda! Quote
CVarnz Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 Seeing as my collection is inherited, I'm not completely sure what I've got at the moment, so can someone take a stab at what freeman number mine is ?? Pwease... Quote
Accumulator Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 Seeing as my collection is inherited, I'm not completely sure what I've got at the moment, so can someone take a stab at what freeman number mine is ?? Pwease...That looks like an 'open 3'. The variety is not actually listed in Freeman. The ordinary 1863 is Freeman 42. Quote
RLC35 Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 Seeing as my collection is inherited, I'm not completely sure what I've got at the moment, so can someone take a stab at what freeman number mine is ?? Pwease...That looks like an 'open 3'. The variety is not actually listed in Freeman. The ordinary 1863 is Freeman 42.The Gouby number for the 1863 Open 3 is BP1863B (J + g). Quote
davidrj Posted October 14, 2013 Author Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) Seeing as my collection is inherited, I'm not completely sure what I've got at the moment, so can someone take a stab at what freeman number mine is ?? Pwease...Sorry, I think that's a standard 3there are subtle varieties of the normal 3, the open 3 is quite distinct having a curved rather than straight downstroke Edited October 14, 2013 by davidrj Quote
CVarnz Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 What sort of grade would you attach at a rough glance? Quote
Accumulator Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 Seeing as my collection is inherited, I'm not completely sure what I've got at the moment, so can someone take a stab at what freeman number mine is ?? Pwease...Sorry, I think that's a standard 3there are subtle varieties of the normal 3, the open 3 is quite distinct having a curved rather than straight downstrokeDavid, I'm not sure which of your photos (if any), you regard as an open 3? Two of them are 1865's. I've looked at CVarnz's coin and my own and they both look 'open' compared with the 'standard' 1863. I'm also not sure I understand your description of them 'having a curved rather than straight' downstroke. I don't have Gouby to hand so may be missing something? Quote
Colin G. Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 I would guess that the coin above the 1865/3 is the open 3, it does seem to curve rather than being a straight diagonal Quote
Accumulator Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 I would guess that the coin above the 1865/3 is the open 3, it does seem to curve rather than being a straight diagonalYou could be right. Certainly mine also has that curve, as did the original poster's example. That said, Cvarnz's coin is very 'open', so I'm not sure. It would be interesting to check Gouby later. Quote
Rob Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 (edited) All the other 3s have the angled stroke such that extending it hits the end of the bottom curve. One (presumably the 'open 3') doesn't.And going back to my original point as to whether this is 3 over 2, there is a diagonal line on my screen across the upper part of the bottom curve which continues into a curved line in the field. Following the curve round you hit the left hand end of the top bar of the 3, and this is in higher relief. Taken in conjunction with a roughly straight inside 'curve' to the lower part of the 3, this would be commensurate with a filled in 2 and overcut with a 3. Edited October 14, 2013 by Rob Quote
davidrj Posted October 14, 2013 Author Posted October 14, 2013 I would guess that the coin above the 1865/3 is the open 3, it does seem to curve rather than being a straight diagonalYes!here's Gouby's pictures Quote
davidrj Posted October 14, 2013 Author Posted October 14, 2013 All the other 3s have the angled stroke such that extending it hits the end of the bottom curve. One (presumably the 'open 3') doesn't.And going back to my original point as to whether this is 3 over 2, there is a diagonal line on my screen across the upper part of the bottom curve which continues into a curved line in the field. Following the curve round you hit the left hand end of the top bar of the 3, and this is in higher relief. Taken in conjunction with a roughly straight inside 'curve' to the lower part of the 3, this would be commensurate with a filled in 2 and overcut with a 3.I'm still not convinced it's not a botched 5/3 Quote
Bernie Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 There are at least three different reverse dies used in the production of the open three pennies. Each one is clearly recognisable as different. Quote
Colin G. Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 Is there any evidence to support Rob's theory, because if they were old dies being utilised, then it is feasible that a punch (for a 5 or other digit) could have been altered to create a 3 if one was not available. If the 3 is the same across all 3 dies, and it is just the positioning of the digit that differs then it could be a plausible explanation. Quote
declanwmagee Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 Are the 3s different, Bernie, or is it just the positioning that differentiates the three reverse dies? Quote
1949threepence Posted October 14, 2013 Posted October 14, 2013 My snipe got blown out of the water on this one,Yes a nice grade open 3, but what's going on wiyh the shield protrusion opposite the lighthouse? The rocks look a little odd for reverse g tooDoesn't look like a die clashWithout delving into the precise mechanics of the issue, David, sympathies for not getting it. Quite a reasonable grade for such a rare item. Quote
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