Gothic Florin on eBay - opinion

[Oxford_Collector]

I've been looking for a nice gothic florin to add to my florin type collection, most of my later florins are BU (as far as I can tell uncleaned, but I guess its not always possible to be certain...), but I've been pondering this attractively toned gothic florin on eBay and was wondering what people on here thought of it? Not sure I'm actually going to buy it, but would be good to have an idea of people's opinions to try to get a reference point at least. As far as I can tell, it looks AUNC to me - there is very little wear as far as I can tell, though the lower lions are not as clearly defined as the upper ones - am not sure if this is due to a weak strike or wear, though.

In the photo it looks like there is a horizontal mark on Victoria's lower front neck/upper chest, I asked the seller about this and they said:

"The Horizontal mark on Victoria's lower front neck is nothing (shadow I think). But with a magnifying glass only, you can see 2 small marks vertically. But not without using a magnifying glass"

Has anyone got any images of a top-notch gothic florin I can compare for reference? I saw some better specimens at the recent London Coin Fair (I think in the Dix Noonan Web stall, though I could be mistaken), which had more details on the lions and we're apparently BU, but they were asking over £600...

Spink 2012 has the following guide values for an 1852 Gothic florin: EF - £250, UNC - £600, an the 2011 Rotographic guide gives: EF - £200, UNC - £300, so I guess its priced for around AUNC (if using Spink as a guide).

The 1852 seems to be the first year of major issue (1851 is reported in Rotographic, but very rare) and is perhaps more common than some of the later issues, if the prices quoted in Spink are anything to go by, though I don't have the English Silver Coinage Seaby book, so am unsure what relative rarity is listed there.

Another thing I'm aware of is that counterfeits of gothic florins exist, this one looks genuine to me, but I'm no expert...

Anyway, any feedback welcome, decent gothic florins don't come cheap, so I want to make sure I don't get fleeced when buying one! Thanks

[Generic Lad]

Lovely coin, but I agree with you on the second lion, does appear worn or a bad strike. There also seems to be weird toning (or lack of toning) on the rim, particularly on the obverse. Of course it could just be how the coin was stored. Not a bad example, but honestly I'd get a piece I could look at before spending ~$500 on a coin without seeing it in person.

[Nick]

I would say it is overpriced, because the grade is only aEF to EF because there is general wear all over. All of the reverse is looking a little worn and on the obverse the jewels on the crown and the plait of hair are looking a little flattened. It's a nice example, but not worth that sort of money.

[numismatist]

Looks to me to be well over double its sensible value ?

[VickySilver]

Yes, another spot to look for is Vicky's braid, etc.

Too much money!

[TomGoodheart]

How about this one: Lloyd florin ?

It's a bit cheaper ... plus you could probably ask for larger photos and he's a reputable dealer if you're unhappy.

Edited February 22, 2012 by TomGoodheart

[Chris Perkins]

I've got a couple of nice ones. You can (obviously) send them back if not satisfied.

[Peckris]

I would agree that it's only EF - if you wait I'm sure an even better specimen will come along. That one would be a very nice coin but at a lower price.

[Oxford_Collector]

Thanks for all the comments, so basically the opinion is: its a nice coin, but would probably grade AEF to EF, so is overpriced.

Thanks for the tips about which areas to check for wear - the jewels on the crown and the plait of hair were mentioned, also of course the lions faces (as usual!) - are there any other typical "problem areas" to check?

For florins, as I'm type-collecting them (for now...), I'm ideally trying to get UNC specimens of each major type, but I've not seen very many gothic florins so far in this condition (sorry Chris - yours whilst reasonably priced, don't quite cut the mustard) apart from the aforementioned v.expensive ones I mentioned before at the London coin show, which I confess I was tempted by, but had already blown my budget on other purchases by then (including a very nice, but not cheap Edward VII florin...). I think I'd prefer to wait until the right one comes along, and am guessing that won't be via eBay...

[Chris Perkins]

I'm not exclusively just after a sale here, but I reckon for £200 you'd love that 1865 I've got on the website! It's much better than that ebay one and costs half as much. I can't understand why no one has nabbed it. It was £300, then £240, and now (as of a couple of days ago) £200.

http://www.predecimal.com/florin-1865-reduced-p-9083.html

And the 1860 is a million times better than the ebay coin, especially in the hand. And costs the same. So prooflike. For that money you couldn't find a better one. For more money than that you may also not get a better one.

http://www.predecimal.com/florin-1860-auncunc-p-20041.html

I'm honestly not prostituting my coins here, I'm just trying to get across how wonderful they are in the flesh!

[Oxford_Collector]

I'm not exclusively just after a sale here, but I reckon for £200 you'd love that 1865 I've got on the website! It's much better than that ebay one and costs half as much. I can't understand why no one has nabbed it. It was £300, then £240, and now (as of a couple of days ago) £200.

http://www.predecimal.com/florin-1865-reduced-p-9083.html

And the 1860 is a million times better than the ebay coin, especially in the hand. And costs the same. So prooflike. For that money you couldn't find a better one. For more money than that you may also not get a better one.

http://www.predecimal.com/florin-1860-auncunc-p-20041.html

I'm honestly not prostituting my coins here, I'm just trying to get across how wonderful they are in the flesh!

Do you have any other photos of the 1860? The scan on the website shows the details, but make the surfaces looks very flat

[Chris Perkins]

Will do some tomorrow...

[Chris Perkins]

Sorry, sold both those Gothic florins just now. The buyer got a small discount off of what were already incredible coins for the money. Sometimes you really can't hang around; I often have coins sell from my listings within hours of listing them, almost as if certain buyers actually check multiple times per day. Barmy.

[Oxford_Collector]

Sorry, sold both those Gothic florins just now. The buyer got a small discount off of what were already incredible coins for the money. Sometimes you really can't hang around; I often have coins sell from my listings within hours of listing them, almost as if certain buyers actually check multiple times per day. Barmy.

Okay, no worries - am not in any hurry, would rather wait for the right coin

[coin watch]

Sorry, sold both those Gothic florins just now. The buyer got a small discount off of what were already incredible coins for the money. Sometimes you really can't hang around; I often have coins sell from my listings within hours of listing them, almost as if certain buyers actually check multiple times per day. Barmy.

Seems as if the ebay 'snipers' are now targeting the dealers lists......beware the 'dealer list sniper'..... I too have noticed some coins selling at an amazing rate, as soon as the dealer shows a coin available its "sold" If you dealers are reading please list your coins in the evenings (uk time) please!!!

[Nick]

I've been looking for a nice gothic florin to add to my florin type collection, most of my later florins are BU (as far as I can tell uncleaned, but I guess its not always possible to be certain...), but I've been pondering this attractively toned gothic florin on eBay and was wondering what people on here thought of it? Not sure I'm actually going to buy it, but would be good to have an idea of people's opinions to try to get a reference point at least. As far as I can tell, it looks AUNC to me - there is very little wear as far as I can tell, though the lower lions are not as clearly defined as the upper ones - am not sure if this is due to a weak strike or wear, though.

In the photo it looks like there is a horizontal mark on Victoria's lower front neck/upper chest, I asked the seller about this and they said:

"The Horizontal mark on Victoria's lower front neck is nothing (shadow I think). But with a magnifying glass only, you can see 2 small marks vertically. But not without using a magnifying glass"

Has anyone got any images of a top-notch gothic florin I can compare for reference? I saw some better specimens at the recent London Coin Fair (I think in the Dix Noonan Web stall, though I could be mistaken), which had more details on the lions and we're apparently BU, but they were asking over £600...

Spink 2012 has the following guide values for an 1852 Gothic florin: EF - £250, UNC - £600, an the 2011 Rotographic guide gives: EF - £200, UNC - £300, so I guess its priced for around AUNC (if using Spink as a guide).

The 1852 seems to be the first year of major issue (1851 is reported in Rotographic, but very rare) and is perhaps more common than some of the later issues, if the prices quoted in Spink are anything to go by, though I don't have the English Silver Coinage Seaby book, so am unsure what relative rarity is listed there.

Another thing I'm aware of is that counterfeits of gothic florins exist, this one looks genuine to me, but I'm no expert...

Anyway, any feedback welcome, decent gothic florins don't come cheap, so I want to make sure I don't get fleeced when buying one! Thanks

If you register with Heritage (www.ha.com) you can get access to their auction archive. The archive is searchable and you will be able to find images of many high grade coins (mostly certified by PCGS and NGC). The images are fairly huge and mostly show good detail.

[Oxford_Collector]

I've been looking for a nice gothic florin to add to my florin type collection, most of my later florins are BU (as far as I can tell uncleaned, but I guess its not always possible to be certain...), but I've been pondering this attractively toned gothic florin on eBay and was wondering what people on here thought of it? Not sure I'm actually going to buy it, but would be good to have an idea of people's opinions to try to get a reference point at least. As far as I can tell, it looks AUNC to me - there is very little wear as far as I can tell, though the lower lions are not as clearly defined as the upper ones - am not sure if this is due to a weak strike or wear, though.

In the photo it looks like there is a horizontal mark on Victoria's lower front neck/upper chest, I asked the seller about this and they said:

"The Horizontal mark on Victoria's lower front neck is nothing (shadow I think). But with a magnifying glass only, you can see 2 small marks vertically. But not without using a magnifying glass"

Has anyone got any images of a top-notch gothic florin I can compare for reference? I saw some better specimens at the recent London Coin Fair (I think in the Dix Noonan Web stall, though I could be mistaken), which had more details on the lions and we're apparently BU, but they were asking over £600...

Spink 2012 has the following guide values for an 1852 Gothic florin: EF - £250, UNC - £600, an the 2011 Rotographic guide gives: EF - £200, UNC - £300, so I guess its priced for around AUNC (if using Spink as a guide).

The 1852 seems to be the first year of major issue (1851 is reported in Rotographic, but very rare) and is perhaps more common than some of the later issues, if the prices quoted in Spink are anything to go by, though I don't have the English Silver Coinage Seaby book, so am unsure what relative rarity is listed there.

Another thing I'm aware of is that counterfeits of gothic florins exist, this one looks genuine to me, but I'm no expert...

Anyway, any feedback welcome, decent gothic florins don't come cheap, so I want to make sure I don't get fleeced when buying one! Thanks

If you register with Heritage (www.ha.com) you can get access to their auction archive. The archive is searchable and you will be able to find images of many high grade coins (mostly certified by PCGS and NGC). The images are fairly huge and mostly show good detail.

I'm already registered with them, as have been in interested in some of the US coins they have on there (though the prices can get scary...), hadn't thought to look for British coins, but will have a look for reference purposes!