Northumberland Shilling 1763 from Australia

[argentumandcoins]

I don't know much about fakes, but one thing that concerns me is the number of genuine coins that will sooner or later over the years come to be classififed as possible fakes and then in order to ensure sellers do not soil their reputations become definite fakes, is it going to become a case of only those currently held in collections of the elite collectors as I call them will become the only genuine coins about at the cost of all others.

In 95% of cases it is possible for an experienced collector/dealer to establish whether or not a coin is genuine just by handling it.

The digital age is a big problem as most purchasers now are buying on images rather than by getting "hands on".

When I am buying for stock or collection if I have the slightest doubt about authenticity I walk away, whether or not the coin is rare or otherwise desirable.

I do not foresee a time when people will shy away from coins due to concerns of authenticity (Northumberland Shillings being a good example), but they should only buy after inspecting or buy from a reliable source.

Rob continually bangs on about provenance and this is the key to satisfying yourself that you are buying a genuine coin when purchasing from an untested source.

A good indicator is grade. Forgeries are generally not UNC coins as they attract a greater degree of inspection from potential purchasers. A VF or lower coin usually doesn't warrant close scrutiny and could be passed off as genuine quite easilly (I certainly don't inspect mid grade coins to check whether or not they are genuine, unless they are coins of which there are known copies).

Hope that helps.

[Paulus]

http://www.give-a-buck.com/closet/essay/editorial29.html

Heres a bit about these Regards Michael

Thats a great article, thanks Michael

So I will have to go down the expert/dealer examination in hand route again (still got my dud Charlie one shilling), would anyone care to offer up their services? I have just informed the seller that I am having it looked at.

[numismatist]

Here is my fake I bought off Ebay.Their Legal Dept said I must

get a Court Order if over 45 days and you want the sellers

address . One thing I notice is that the FAKES seem to have

a weak Obverse beading from about 4 o'clock to 7 o'clock

[numismatist]

This is my REVERSE..System would not let me post at the same time as the Obverse

[argentumandcoins]

http://www.give-a-buck.com/closet/essay/editorial29.html

Heres a bit about these Regards Michael

Thats a great article, thanks Michael

So I will have to go down the expert/dealer examination in hand route again (still got my dud Charlie one shilling), would anyone care to offer up their services? I have just informed the seller that I am having it looked at.

I would take a look for you but I think you would be better off with a professional report as the implication from Downies is that they will do nothing without one.

Robert Matthews from Coin Authentication Services is your man. I don't think Downies or anybody else can argue with his qualifications.

[Paulus]

Here is my fake I bought off Ebay.Their Legal Dept said I must

get a Court Order if over 45 days and you want the sellers

address . One thing I notice is that the FAKES seem to have

a weak Obverse beading from about 4 o'clock to 7 o'clock

Thanks, did you get refunded? That is another thing counting against mine then!

[Paulus]

http://www.give-a-buck.com/closet/essay/editorial29.html

Heres a bit about these Regards Michael

Thats a great article, thanks Michael

So I will have to go down the expert/dealer examination in hand route again (still got my dud Charlie one shilling), would anyone care to offer up their services? I have just informed the seller that I am having it looked at.

I would take a look for you but I think you would be better off with a professional report as the implication from Downies is that they will do nothing without one.

Robert Matthews from Coin Authentication Services is your man. I don't think Downies or anybody else can argue with his qualifications.

Thanks, is he a member on here by any chance?

[argentumandcoins]

http://www.give-a-buck.com/closet/essay/editorial29.html

Heres a bit about these Regards Michael

Thats a great article, thanks Michael

So I will have to go down the expert/dealer examination in hand route again (still got my dud Charlie one shilling), would anyone care to offer up their services? I have just informed the seller that I am having it looked at.

I would take a look for you but I think you would be better off with a professional report as the implication from Downies is that they will do nothing without one.

Robert Matthews from Coin Authentication Services is your man. I don't think Downies or anybody else can argue with his qualifications.

Thanks, is he a member on here by any chance?

No, but a quick google search will direct you to his site.

[azda]

Do you have any better pictures of the coin in question? From the lowish grade pictures I've seen, it does appear to share a number of scratches/bagmarks that were identified last time fake Northumberland shillings were discussed.

I agree it looks like a fake which has been accepted into the market and retailed by an honest dealer.Oh dear.

This is a bit of a nightmare isn't it ... Downies stated 2 or 3 times that if I obtain a certificate that it is a copy, from IBSCC, within 12 months even, they will refund the seller who should refund me etc etc

So, has anyone tried/heard of IBSCC (see email from Downies above)? To be honest I'm no longer sure that if they passed it as genuine I would be satisfied!

F**k that, go straight to the horses mouth and send it back. There's far to many question marks against this

Coin. If in 12 months it turns out to be fake and Downies refund the ebay seller do you actually think he's gonna refund you in 12 months? Send it back before iits to late. Just my opinion, its your coin, your cash and your call.

[numismatist]

In answer to Paulus question, NO cannot get my money back as its a year ago

since I bought it, and Ebay refuse to tell me the sellers Name and Address

(ebay name was anthony.0177 and he say he wont tell me his name but says he

bought it from ebay name xxxcoinsxxx ) I think " azda " has the best advice

if you paid by Paypal...start a claim with them, BUT make sure you are in a

position to fax them a dealers headed paper saying they believe the coin is

a fake BEFORE you start making a claim, because they only give you a few days

and if they dont get it on time they close the case and you loose out.

[Gollum]

I'm not up on all this stuff, but can't you use the sale of goods act in the uk ads well, I thought I read somewhere that you have up to 6 years with that to claim.

[HistoricCoinage]

and Ebay refuse to tell me the sellers Name and Address

(ebay name was anthony.0177

You can find out the name and address of any eBayer, it's part of eBay's policy. It's very easy and bear in mind that they, in turn, will get your details too - but this shouldn't be a problem if you've already bought from them.

[numismatist]

Regret thats not so..Yes okay for 45 days after purchase..

I had long conversation with Ebay Trust and Safety Dept

they said I must get Solicitor to write to Head Office in

Luxembourg. Because of costs I wrote myself, they explained

they would only ever give such details if an actual Court

order was obtained ordering them to give those details.

[Paulus]

Update on my shilling:

I have sent it off to CGS for authentication and grading as suggested, and informed the seller, should hear in 30 days or so and I will keep you all informed on here.

Out of interest, here is another for sale on Baldwin's bearing the same missing tops and beading:

http://www.baldwin.co.uk/coins/great-britain/george-iii-northumberland-shilling-1763.html?usrc=1

[numismatist]

The outcome will be very interesting to know. Hopefully the latest Baldwin offering is okay

as the second " G " is not broken which it is on the KNOWN !!! Fakes, though the the weak

bottom milling is worrying .

Makes me wonder why the BNTA like to keep all knowledge of fakes SECRET except perhaps to

their members.? It would be nice if someone who is a BNTA member explained to us collectors

just what steps are being taken and give us the reason for the hush hush approach they take ?

This is a Fake that Baldwins Sold some time ago and I understand they are very active

in taking steps to avoid them coming on to the market. It shows traces of the < coming from

the kings mouth but that would be easy to rub away .

[numismatist]

This is my FAKE , too big the add to last post

[argentumandcoins]

The outcome will be very interesting to know. Hopefully the latest Baldwin offering is okay

as the second " G " is not broken which it is on the KNOWN !!! Fakes, though the the weak

bottom milling is worrying .

Makes me wonder why the BNTA like to keep all knowledge of fakes SECRET except perhaps to

their members.? It would be nice if someone who is a BNTA member explained to us collectors

just what steps are being taken and give us the reason for the hush hush approach they take ?

This is a Fake that Baldwins Sold some time ago and I understand they are very active

in taking steps to avoid them coming on to the market. It shows traces of the < coming from

the kings mouth but that would be easy to rub away .

It isn't the BNTA that keep the knowledge sacred, it's the IAPN of which there are precious few members worldwide. As a dealer my access to the info is exactly the same as yours so you have to use judgement, experience and gut feeling when buying.

The only plausible explanation for secrecy is to stop the forgers from perfecting their wares by gaining access to the information, thin you may think but I couldn't possibly comment.