1887 SIXPENCE R over V

[numismatist]

The other day I bought 3 x Jubilee Sixpences 1887 and with all the interest

these days in overdates and overstamps I looked at them closely . One was normal

one was a very clear R over V ( see Photo )and the other had no trace of the V but

the R has an identical double pieced top bar which I assume is the left top bar

of the V but no other trace of the V . Ive tried a good 50 Photos of that one

(must try getting a USB Microscope ) but not got a decent one. Not having seen one

before I wondered if the clear R over V is a particularly good strike and the other

one a much later die strike with only the top bars of the V present or visible ?

[Peckris]

The other day I bought 3 x Jubilee Sixpences 1887 and with all the interest

these days in overdates and overstamps I looked at them closely . One was normal

one was a very clear R over V ( see Photo )and the other had no trace of the V but

the R has an identical double pieced top bar which I assume is the left top bar

of the V but no other trace of the V . Ive tried a good 50 Photos of that one

(must try getting a USB Microscope ) but not got a decent one. Not having seen one

before I wondered if the clear R over V is a particularly good strike and the other

one a much later die strike with only the top bars of the V present or visible ?

That sounds more like the R over I (apparently there's a lot of these.)

[numismatist]

Many thanks " Peckris " that would fit very well, and I never knew it existed.

Great Forum that we all learn something everyday from Regards Michael

[Peckris]

Many thanks " Peckris " that would fit very well, and I never knew it existed.

Great Forum that we all learn something everyday from Regards Michael

You're welcome - I only found about this from 1887Jubilee who identified one of my 1887s as that!

[Colin G.]

Many thanks " Peckris " that would fit very well, and I never knew it existed.

Great Forum that we all learn something everyday from Regards Michael

You're welcome - I only found about this from 1887Jubilee who identified one of my 1887s as that!

There are a few farthings where an I has been used to recut/strengthen the upright of a letter on a die, but there is a clear diagonal line on that one and also something just above the front foot of the R. They may just be cracks as a result of the strengthening, because I can not think of any other letter..but it may be worth a closer look!!

[Peckris]

Many thanks " Peckris " that would fit very well, and I never knew it existed.

Great Forum that we all learn something everyday from Regards Michael

You're welcome - I only found about this from 1887Jubilee who identified one of my 1887s as that!

There are a few farthings where an I has been used to recut/strengthen the upright of a letter on a die, but there is a clear diagonal line on that one and also something just above the front foot of the R. They may just be cracks as a result of the strengthening, because I can not think of any other letter..but it may be worth a closer look!!

Colin, read again - that picture IS of the R over V. Numismatist was talking about one of the other three (no picture?)

[Colin G.]

Oops

[Nick]

The other day I bought 3 x Jubilee Sixpences 1887 and with all the interest

these days in overdates and overstamps I looked at them closely . One was normal

one was a very clear R over V ( see Photo )and the other had no trace of the V but

the R has an identical double pieced top bar which I assume is the left top bar

of the V but no other trace of the V . Ive tried a good 50 Photos of that one

(must try getting a USB Microscope ) but not got a decent one. Not having seen one

before I wondered if the clear R over V is a particularly good strike and the other

one a much later die strike with only the top bars of the V present or visible ?

I agree with Peck that the other one is more likely an R/I, because the top bar of the V would not be in the same position. If you could see the top bar of the V it would be to the left of the upright of the R. However, most pictures of R/? I have seen also have that doubled top bar. Here are a couple of pictures: one is R/V; the other is a possible R/B and both could probably also be called over I

[declanwmagee]

Here's mine - ID'd by me as R/I, but quite happy to be corrected - so long as no-one says it's not over anything!

[declanwmagee]

Just checked in Davies, and he valued R/B higher than R/I, so that would be good...it's certainly not a V

[declanwmagee]

crikey my photos are getting better

[Gollum]

crikey my photos are getting better

Pfft it's allright for you techies with the new brownie !

[numismatist]

Wow ! so at least 3 x " R " over another letter , must be a load around

waiting to be discovered as I found 2 out of 3 in a small lot of coins.

Some great Photos there, must try and get better skills as I always seem

to take 20 plus photos to get one good one and even failed and gave up on

the one I asked about,after taking 50 , but on looking at the " declanwmagee "

photo it seems to be same as mine , so fits in as an " R over I " as " peckris "

suggested. So think I found a " R over V " and " R over I " thanks all for the info....

[Peckris]

Wow ! so at least 3 x " R " over another letter , must be a load around

waiting to be discovered as I found 2 out of 3 in a small lot of coins.

Some great Photos there, must try and get better skills as I always seem

to take 20 plus photos to get one good one and even failed and gave up on

the one I asked about,after taking 50 , but on looking at the " declanwmagee "

photo it seems to be same as mine , so fits in as an " R over I " as " peckris "

suggested. So think I found a " R over V " and " R over I " thanks all for the info....

The R over I is actually fairly common - and it does seem likely that the I may have been used to strengthen the R, as has been suggested.

[1887jubilee]

The other day I bought 3 x Jubilee Sixpences 1887 and with all the interest

these days in overdates and overstamps I looked at them closely . One was normal

one was a very clear R over V ( see Photo )and the other had no trace of the V but

the R has an identical double pieced top bar which I assume is the left top bar

of the V but no other trace of the V . Ive tried a good 50 Photos of that one

(must try getting a USB Microscope ) but not got a decent one. Not having seen one

before I wondered if the clear R over V is a particularly good strike and the other

one a much later die strike with only the top bars of the V present or visible ?

That sounds more like the R over I (apparently there's a lot of these.)

I can't resist putting in my two pennyworth any longer. Of the last 703 sixpences of 1887 I have examined 83 were YH and 620 JH. Of the Jubilee head 445 had short serif Rs and 175 had long serifs. Very close examination inclines me to the view that all 175 are of the type R/I. Further all the Rs are overstruck. So 25% of all 1887 sixpences are R/I but don't tell anyone or the bottom will drop out of the market. They really are very common. As for the R/B I think it safe to say this is not R/B but a form of the R/I where the overstrike is closer to the leg of the R. Certainly the R/B offered by St. James recently was just an R/I misdescribed. There are however many different versions of the R/I as each die seems to have been made individually and I have yet to ask the Royal Mint how many there were. I have as many as 40+ R/I s of these there at least 20+ different dies. I would really like to hear what Rob has to say on the subject before I give away all my hard work. PS how did you do the photo Declan; was it with a USB microscope?

[numismatist]

I've managed a photo at last thats kind of clear by holding a 10 x loupe over the lettering

and taken the photos with the camera held over that.

First is what I now think is " R over I "

Second is what I think is " R over V "

[1887jubilee]

I've managed a photo at last thats kind of clear by holding a 10 x loupe over the lettering

and taken the photos with the camera held over that.

First is what I now think is " R over I "

Second is what I think is " R over V "

Well done they are as you say R/I and R/V. You can get the photo by holding the lens on the front of the camera and then using the macro option. It's all about focus.

[just.me]

I can't resist putting in my two pennyworth any longer. Of the last 703 sixpences of 1887 I have examined 83 were YH and 620 JH. Of the Jubilee head 445 had short serif Rs and 175 had long serifs. Very close examination inclines me to the view that all 175 are of the type R/I. Further all the Rs are overstruck. So 25% of all 1887 sixpences are R/I but don't tell anyone or the bottom will drop out of the market. They really are very common. As for the R/B I think it safe to say this is not R/B but a form of the R/I where the overstrike is closer to the leg of the R. Certainly the R/B offered by St. James recently was just an R/I misdescribed. There are however many different versions of the R/I as each die seems to have been made individually and I have yet to ask the Royal Mint how many there were. I have as many as 40+ R/I s of these there at least 20+ different dies. I would really like to hear what Rob has to say on the subject before I give away all my hard work. PS how did you do the photo Declan; was it with a USB microscope?

When you say 620 were JH, how many of these were shield reverse? did any of the JH Shield rev have the A in Victoria over a much higher A? I have come across this overstike just twice.

Also do you know of any die varieties of the JEB on truncation type or was it a sole pairing of dies?

[1887jubilee]

I can't resist putting in my two pennyworth any longer. Of the last 703 sixpences of 1887 I have examined 83 were YH and 620 JH. Of the Jubilee head 445 had short serif Rs and 175 had long serifs. Very close examination inclines me to the view that all 175 are of the type R/I. Further all the Rs are overstruck. So 25% of all 1887 sixpences are R/I but don't tell anyone or the bottom will drop out of the market. They really are very common. As for the R/B I think it safe to say this is not R/B but a form of the R/I where the overstrike is closer to the leg of the R. Certainly the R/B offered by St. James recently was just an R/I misdescribed. There are however many different versions of the R/I as each die seems to have been made individually and I have yet to ask the Royal Mint how many there were. I have as many as 40+ R/I s of these there at least 20+ different dies. I would really like to hear what Rob has to say on the subject before I give away all my hard work. PS how did you do the photo Declan; was it with a USB microscope?

When you say 620 were JH, how many of these were shield reverse? did any of the JH Shield rev have the A in Victoria over a much higher A? I have come across this overstike just twice.

Also do you know of any die varieties of the JEB on truncation type or was it a sole pairing of dies?

418. I would like to talk to you. 07967505509

[declanwmagee]

PS how did you do the photo Declan; was it with a USB microscope?

No it wasn't - just a digital camera on Macro zoomed in, then cropped and blown up a bit with software. No other image processing.

[just.me]

I can't resist putting in my two pennyworth any longer. Of the last 703 sixpences of 1887 I have examined 83 were YH and 620 JH. Of the Jubilee head 445 had short serif Rs and 175 had long serifs. Very close examination inclines me to the view that all 175 are of the type R/I. Further all the Rs are overstruck. So 25% of all 1887 sixpences are R/I but don't tell anyone or the bottom will drop out of the market. They really are very common. As for the R/B I think it safe to say this is not R/B but a form of the R/I where the overstrike is closer to the leg of the R. Certainly the R/B offered by St. James recently was just an R/I misdescribed. There are however many different versions of the R/I as each die seems to have been made individually and I have yet to ask the Royal Mint how many there were. I have as many as 40+ R/I s of these there at least 20+ different dies. I would really like to hear what Rob has to say on the subject before I give away all my hard work. PS how did you do the photo Declan; was it with a USB microscope?

When you say 620 were JH, how many of these were shield reverse? did any of the JH Shield rev have the A in Victoria over a much higher A? I have come across this overstike just twice.

Also do you know of any die varieties of the JEB on truncation type or was it a sole pairing of dies?

418. I would like to talk to you. 07967505509

Thank you, very interesting stats. That is a lot of 1887s to look through!

Yeah sure thing, when is the best time(s) to call?

[headsortails]

I can't resist putting in my two pennyworth any longer. Of the last 703 sixpences of 1887 I have examined 83 were YH and 620 JH. Of the Jubilee head 445 had short serif Rs and 175 had long serifs. Very close examination inclines me to the view that all 175 are of the type R/I. Further all the Rs are overstruck. So 25% of all 1887 sixpences are R/I but don't tell anyone or the bottom will drop out of the market. They really are very common. As for the R/B I think it safe to say this is not R/B but a form of the R/I where the overstrike is closer to the leg of the R. Certainly the R/B offered by St. James recently was just an R/I misdescribed. There are however many different versions of the R/I as each die seems to have been made individually and I have yet to ask the Royal Mint how many there were. I have as many as 40+ R/I s of these there at least 20+ different dies. I would really like to hear what Rob has to say on the subject before I give away all my hard work. PS how did you do the photo Declan; was it with a USB microscope?

When you say 620 were JH, how many of these were shield reverse? did any of the JH Shield rev have the A in Victoria over a much higher A? I have come across this overstike just twice.

Also do you know of any die varieties of the JEB on truncation type or was it a sole pairing of dies?

418. I would like to talk to you. 07967505509

Thank you, very interesting stats. That is a lot of 1887s to look through!

Yeah sure thing, when is the best time(s) to call?

I have three of these and two of the three are R/I there all jeb one of them has a mark on the coin which I beleave was on the blank prior to strikeing.

[just.me]

I have three of these and two of the three are R/I there all jeb one of them has a mark on the coin which I beleave was on the blank prior to strikeing.

I'd agree it looks like it was a defective blank was used before it was struck.

All of them have JEB, 99% have the JEB 'below' the bust and there is a rare variety with the JEB 'on' the bust.

[1887jubilee]

I can't resist putting in my two pennyworth any longer. Of the last 703 sixpences of 1887 I have examined 83 were YH and 620 JH. Of the Jubilee head 445 had short serif Rs and 175 had long serifs. Very close examination inclines me to the view that all 175 are of the type R/I. Further all the Rs are overstruck. So 25% of all 1887 sixpences are R/I but don't tell anyone or the bottom will drop out of the market. They really are very common. As for the R/B I think it safe to say this is not R/B but a form of the R/I where the overstrike is closer to the leg of the R. Certainly the R/B offered by St. James recently was just an R/I misdescribed. There are however many different versions of the R/I as each die seems to have been made individually and I have yet to ask the Royal Mint how many there were. I have as many as 40+ R/I s of these there at least 20+ different dies. I would really like to hear what Rob has to say on the subject before I give away all my hard work. PS how did you do the photo Declan; was it with a USB microscope?

When you say 620 were JH, how many of these were shield reverse? did any of the JH Shield rev have the A in Victoria over a much higher A? I have come across this overstike just twice.

Also do you know of any die varieties of the JEB on truncation type or was it a sole pairing of dies?

418. I would like to talk to you. 07967505509

Thank you, very interesting stats. That is a lot of 1887s to look through!

Yeah sure thing, when is the best time(s) to call?

8-9:30 pm this sunday, most evenings after 7pm except Wednesday. Any call will get me during the day but I may not be near the files with all the detail. 10am is usually good.

[1887jubilee]

The other day I bought 3 x Jubilee Sixpences 1887 and with all the interest

these days in overdates and overstamps I looked at them closely . One was normal

one was a very clear R over V ( see Photo )and the other had no trace of the V but

the R has an identical double pieced top bar which I assume is the left top bar

of the V but no other trace of the V . Ive tried a good 50 Photos of that one

(must try getting a USB Microscope ) but not got a decent one. Not having seen one

before I wondered if the clear R over V is a particularly good strike and the other

one a much later die strike with only the top bars of the V present or visible ?

I agree with Peck that the other one is more likely an R/I, because the top bar of the V would not be in the same position. If you could see the top bar of the V it would be to the left of the upright of the R. However, most pictures of R/? I have seen also have that doubled top bar. Here are a couple of pictures: one is R/V; the other is a possible R/B and both could probably also be called over I

I am intrigued by the "R/B" photograph which is as clear as you can get, well done, but there is nothing like seeing the actual coin. when you hold it is there a nick in the leg of the R and are the right serif foot of the R and the leg connected? I have commented previously that I think the R/B is just an R/I with the right serif further over (see how the I is turned anticlockwise). What are your views. This is the first time I have seen a picture good enough to bring that view into doubt.