andrew_ Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 hi, i found this 1912 penny and it looks really odd to me, on the reverse? (brittania side) there seems to be almost no rim, like its beaded up to the edge with hardly any rim. the sea to the left of brittania seems to merge with the beads, and on the back it looks really deep and super sharp, the reverse rim and beading together is less than 0.5mm and over 1mm for the obverse. dunno if you can tell from my scan but it really doesnt look normal:http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh390/mckeown01/oddpenny.jpg Quote
Peckris Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 hi, i found this 1912 penny and it looks really odd to me, on the reverse? (brittania side) there seems to be almost no rim, like its beaded up to the edge with hardly any rim. the sea to the left of brittania seems to merge with the beads, and on the back it looks really deep and super sharp, the reverse rim and beading together is less than 0.5mm and over 1mm for the obverse. dunno if you can tell from my scan but it really doesnt look normal:http://i545.photobucket.com/albums/hh390/mckeown01/oddpenny.jpgOh believe me Andrew - that particular 1912 has quite a good reverse rim. That type 1 reverse (1911 - 1913) is notorious for sometimes lacking a rim almost entirely. The obverse design is very high, so the rim gets well pressed up, but the reverse is relatively shallow and often the rim disappears apart from a light impression. The halfpennies are even worse - it's not unusual to see halfpennies between 1911 and 1925, with the obverse in AF and a rimless reverse in poor with virtually the entire legend worn away.On the pennies, the design change in 1913 saw an improvement, but mainly in the rim. The design was lightly recut and survives better than it does for those first 3 years. Your example is one of the better ones. By the way, it's probably a 1912KN judging by the colour. Quote
andrew_ Posted October 31, 2011 Author Posted October 31, 2011 its actually quite dark, i dont know why my scanner does that to my copper coins, and theres no kn on it too Quote
andrew_ Posted October 31, 2011 Author Posted October 31, 2011 1912KN ? i thought they only did 1918 and 1919? Quote
Accumulator Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 On the pennies, the design change in 1913 saw an improvement, but mainly in the rim. The design was lightly recut and survives better than it does for those first 3 years. Your example is one of the better ones. By the way, it's probably a 1912KN judging by the colour.But I thought the change from A to B reverse in 1913 represents a micro variety, the very mention of which sends you soporific Peckris? :D Quote
andrew_ Posted October 31, 2011 Author Posted October 31, 2011 so i take it its just a normal penny with no value? i bought 7 random coins off ebay, and they sent me the wrong 7. in the lot i was meant to get there was at least a silver sixpence, and a george 3rd penny (hopefully 1808), this was the best coin of the bunch (there is a 1807 penny but its very badly worn almost blank) it only cost me a couple of quid but it seems i was sent a load of rubbish, i think ill stick to collecting piedfort silver proofs from now on lol, at least i know what im getting Quote
Rob Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 so i take it its just a normal penny with no value? i bought 7 random coins off ebay, and they sent me the wrong 7. in the lot i was meant to get there was at least a silver sixpence, and a george 3rd penny (hopefully 1808), this was the best coin of the bunch (there is a 1807 penny but its very badly worn almost blank) it only cost me a couple of quid but it seems i was sent a load of rubbish, i think ill stick to collecting piedfort silver proofs from now on lol, at least i know what im gettingWhy on earth would you hope to get the unique 1808 penny in a job lot of crap off ebay! Quote
Rob Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 for £2 its worth a shot Having spent the odd 5 figure sum on an 1808 penny, methinks the owner might realise what he bought. Quote
andrew_ Posted October 31, 2011 Author Posted October 31, 2011 anyway the stuff i bought in the picture is better than what arrived, ill list what i was sent:1966 threepence !!1920 farthing1947 florin1912 penny (pic)1807 penny1941 farthing1899 pennyneedless to say im a little annoyed as i was at least expecting a 1860 farthing and a silver sixpence Quote
andrew_ Posted October 31, 2011 Author Posted October 31, 2011 i was at least expecting £2 worth of coins, the seller hasnt replied to my messages, i thought id at least give her the chance to remedy it before i slated her in the feedback, i hope its not worth losing her 100% feedback over £2, i know its only £2 but its really bothered me that they sent the wrong lot Quote
Rob Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 i was at least expecting £2 worth of coins, the seller hasnt replied to my messages, i thought id at least give her the chance to remedy it before i slated her in the feedback, i hope its not worth losing her 100% feedback over £2, i know its only £2 but its really bothered me that they sent the wrong lotThere has to be £2 worth of coins in that lot. At less than 30p per coin you were hardly ripped off. At 15p each plus the 1807 penny for £1.10 it's £2. Quote
andrew_ Posted October 31, 2011 Author Posted October 31, 2011 cheers for trying to make me feel better i may just keep the 1912 1d as it looks quite nice, and put the rest in my scrap pile, i buy alot of rubbish off ebay, i have a really bad 1816 half crown on its way too, yet another for scrap! Quote
andrew_ Posted October 31, 2011 Author Posted October 31, 2011 from now on im not buying anything thats in bad nick, im gonna start off my nice coin collection with some piedfort one pounds.on a lighter note i managed to touch a 1863 proof crown at my local dealers the other day, i got goose bumps! Quote
andrew_ Posted October 31, 2011 Author Posted October 31, 2011 also if anyones interested i have 2 george iv half pennies on ebay atm http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/170719876874 its worth a look theyre going fairly cheap Quote
Rob Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 from now on im not buying anything thats in bad nick, im gonna start off my nice coin collection with some piedfort one pounds.on a lighter note i managed to touch a 1863 proof crown at my local dealers the other day, i got goose bumps!You don't mean that, do you? 1893? Quote
andrew_ Posted October 31, 2011 Author Posted October 31, 2011 gothic proof crown perfect condition Quote
Peckris Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 1912KN ? i thought they only did 1918 and 1919?According to Freeman, the Kings Norton Metal Co supplied blanks to the Royal Mint from 1912 until 1918. The classic red colour (to my mind) gives the game away. I wonder if unrecorded supplies of blanks actually go back to 1908? as there are 'red pennies' from that date onwards. That's why I called yours a 1912KN - the blank could well have come from there.On the pennies, the design change in 1913 saw an improvement, but mainly in the rim. The design was lightly recut and survives better than it does for those first 3 years. Your example is one of the better ones. By the way, it's probably a 1912KN judging by the colour.But I thought the change from A to B reverse in 1913 represents a micro variety, the very mention of which sends you soporific Peckris? :DYes indeed it does However, there is an interesting piece of striking and design history behind that particular series, plus the spice of the mules being a lot scarcer than the two main types. Quote
Accumulator Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 Yes indeed it does However, there is an interesting piece of striking and design history behind that particular series, plus the spice of the mules being a lot scarcer than the two main types.I would agree... a lot scarcer! Freeman has '1 + B' as rarity 'N' and '2 + A' as rarity 'R' and VR Court quotes them as 2.6% and 1.4%, respectively, of all 1913s. I'm still looking for both in UNC (anyone selling?). Quote
Red Riley Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 According to Freeman, the Kings Norton Metal Co supplied blanks to the Royal Mint from 1912 until 1918. The classic red colour (to my mind) gives the game away. I wonder if unrecorded supplies of blanks actually go back to 1908? as there are 'red pennies' from that date onwards. That's why I called yours a 1912KN - the blank could well have come from there.I've seen the colour go back as far as 1893 but it is probably just the origin of the metal which accounts for the reddish shade. Quote
scott Posted October 31, 2011 Posted October 31, 2011 (edited) i have a bright coloured 1893, those usualy end up black. so yea.£2. for a bunch of coins that included that very nice 1912?speaking of possible KN Edited November 1, 2011 by scott Quote
Peckris Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 i have a bright coloured 1893, those usualy end up black. so yea.£2. for a bunch of coins that included that very nice 1912?speaking of possible KNThere's red and there's red scott. Or brown, actually! Your penny has the typical colouration seen between 1920 and 1922, and possibly earlier but almost invariable for those dates. However, you will see that our friend's 1912 is noticeably redder, as many of the KNs are. Quote
andrew_ Posted November 1, 2011 Author Posted November 1, 2011 i think my coin looks quite chocolatey coloured Quote
Accumulator Posted November 1, 2011 Posted November 1, 2011 There's red and there's red scott. Or brown, actually! Your penny has the typical colouration seen between 1920 and 1922, and possibly earlier but almost invariable for those dates. However, you will see that our friend's 1912 is noticeably redder, as many of the KNs are. A rather red penny, definitely from the KN mint! Quote
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