1944 Penny microvarieties

[declanwmagee]

Now here's a thing.

Ever since getting Mr Groom's excellent Bronze book I've been looking for a 1944 2+C* Penny. It's not in Freeman or Peck, but Gouby distinguishes them. Never found one though. On a hunch I bought a group of six 1944 pennies, described as UNC by an American seller (big stamp dealer by the looks of it). They're not UNC, of course, but they're decent enough.

Now they've arrived, and blow me, all six are 2+C*. I wonder if, like the 1943/44 silver 3ds, the distribution of microvarieties was a regional thing? I suppose if the West Indies used British currency silver 3ds in the '40s, they probably used bronze pennies too.

[Accumulator]

Hi Declan,

Is 2 + C* with the foot of the first 4 to a tooth? If so, V R Court has them as 1 in 5 of all pennies searched for that date. I've found them less common than this though.

[declanwmagee]

Hi Declan,

Is 2 + C* with the foot of the first 4 to a tooth? If so, V R Court has them as 1 in 5 of all pennies searched for that date. I've found them less common than this though.

That's the fellow, Mr Accumulator...

I've never found one before, and I've looked at a darn sight more than 5, so I'm with you on that one.

Then 6 turn up in the same Jiffy bag.

I must do some number crunching of Mr Court's paper - I do have it, but I haven't given it the attention it deserves!

[Peckris]

Hi Declan,

Is 2 + C* with the foot of the first 4 to a tooth? If so, V R Court has them as 1 in 5 of all pennies searched for that date. I've found them less common than this though.

That's the fellow, Mr Accumulator...

I've never found one before, and I've looked at a darn sight more than 5, so I'm with you on that one.

Then 6 turn up in the same Jiffy bag.

I must do some number crunching of Mr Court's paper - I do have it, but I haven't given it the attention it deserves!

I recall being at a W&W auction in the 1990s where one of the lots was a collection from someone who had clearly pulled a number of near Unc coins from circulation in the 1950s. Included was a haul of 1957 halfpennies, most with full or nearly full lustre - the majority were 'calm sea'! That may be the origin of your 1944s, retrieved from circulation at the same time and ending up in the States still together.

[Red Riley]

Hi Declan,

Is 2 + C* with the foot of the first 4 to a tooth? If so, V R Court has them as 1 in 5 of all pennies searched for that date. I've found them less common than this though.

That's the fellow, Mr Accumulator...

I've never found one before, and I've looked at a darn sight more than 5, so I'm with you on that one.

Then 6 turn up in the same Jiffy bag.

I must do some number crunching of Mr Court's paper - I do have it, but I haven't given it the attention it deserves!

I recall being at a W&W auction in the 1990s where one of the lots was a collection from someone who had clearly pulled a number of near Unc coins from circulation in the 1950s. Included was a haul of 1957 halfpennies, most with full or nearly full lustre - the majority were 'calm sea'! That may be the origin of your 1944s, retrieved from circulation at the same time and ending up in the States still together.

Possibly, although I think Declan does have a point. Where very small numbers of identifiable coins have been produced, it has been possible to trace where they were issud e.g. 1950 penny - Northern Ireland; 1951 penny - Bermuda/West Indies. The same should therefore be theoretically possible of coins with certain identifiable die traits. I say should, but really I meant 'would' as it is far too late now to do anything other than speculate.

[Peckris]

Hi Declan,

Is 2 + C* with the foot of the first 4 to a tooth? If so, V R Court has them as 1 in 5 of all pennies searched for that date. I've found them less common than this though.

That's the fellow, Mr Accumulator...

I've never found one before, and I've looked at a darn sight more than 5, so I'm with you on that one.

Then 6 turn up in the same Jiffy bag.

I must do some number crunching of Mr Court's paper - I do have it, but I haven't given it the attention it deserves!

I recall being at a W&W auction in the 1990s where one of the lots was a collection from someone who had clearly pulled a number of near Unc coins from circulation in the 1950s. Included was a haul of 1957 halfpennies, most with full or nearly full lustre - the majority were 'calm sea'! That may be the origin of your 1944s, retrieved from circulation at the same time and ending up in the States still together.

Possibly, although I think Declan does have a point. Where very small numbers of identifiable coins have been produced, it has been possible to trace where they were issud e.g. 1950 penny - Northern Ireland; 1951 penny - Bermuda/West Indies. The same should therefore be theoretically possible of coins with certain identifiable die traits. I say should, but really I meant 'would' as it is far too late now to do anything other than speculate.

That's certainly true Derek, but it wouldn't apply to 1944 pepnnies in the USA surely? Unless they were issued in the W Indies maybe.

[Red Riley]

That's certainly true Derek, but it wouldn't apply to 1944 pepnnies in the USA surely? Unless they were issued in the W Indies maybe.

I think that's the point. This gentleman in the USA has obtained a collection of coins with a statistically unfeasible bias towards a scarce variety, probably before the variety was even noted. He must have got them from somewhere.

As Sherlock Holmes said, when you have eliminated the impossible, what remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

[Gary D]

That's certainly true Derek, but it wouldn't apply to 1944 pepnnies in the USA surely? Unless they were issued in the W Indies maybe.

I think that's the point. This gentleman in the USA has obtained a collection of coins with a statistically unfeasible bias towards a scarce variety, probably before the variety was even noted. He must have got them from somewhere.

As Sherlock Holmes said, when you have eliminated the impossible, what remains, however improbable, must be the truth.

I didn't realise they were hard to get I've had BUs of all four (toned and bright) for some time.