1876 penny no H

[headsortails]

this is a better quality with a missing H

I can make out the entire right hand upright of the H, and the top half of the left. (I zoomed my screen.)

Likewise. I zoomed in on the iMac and can see this fairly clearly.

I looked at this photo with photo zoom pro,could see no H,any chance of a better photo please Daz.

[argentumandcoins]

this is a better quality with a missing H

I can make out the entire right hand upright of the H, and the top half of the left. (I zoomed my screen.)

Likewise. I zoomed in on the iMac and can see this fairly clearly.

I looked at this photo with photo zoom pro,could see no H,any chance of a better photo please Daz.

A handy pointer that the coin has been altered is the fact that it has been artificially "dirtied" for want of a better word. Some people like to clean coins, nobody likes to make them look worse than they are unless they are trying to disguise something. I guess in the end you'll see what you want to see though.

[headsortails]

this is a better quality with a missing H

I can make out the entire right hand upright of the H, and the top half of the left. (I zoomed my screen.)

Likewise. I zoomed in on the iMac and can see this fairly clearly.

I looked at this photo with photo zoom pro,could see no H,any chance of a better photo please Daz.

A handy pointer that the coin has been altered is the fact that it has been artificially "dirtied" for want of a better word. Some people like to clean coins, nobody likes to make them look worse than they are unless they are trying to disguise something. I guess in the end you'll see what you want to see though.

It's not so much what I want to see, it's what I can't see, I know for sure can't see (the entire right hand upright of the H on this coin)all I have asked for is a better photo.

for is a closer look,the more information the better.

[Peckris]

this is a better quality with a missing H

I can make out the entire right hand upright of the H, and the top half of the left. (I zoomed my screen.)

Likewise. I zoomed in on the iMac and can see this fairly clearly.

I guess the people who can't see it don't have Macs

[headsortails]

this is a better quality with a missing H

I can make out the entire right hand upright of the H, and the top half of the left. (I zoomed my screen.)

Likewise. I zoomed in on the iMac and can see this fairly clearly.

I guess the people who can't see it don't have Macs

i don't want a mac don't need a mac ok dude

[1949threepence]

this is a better quality with a missing H

I can make out the entire right hand upright of the H, and the top half of the left. (I zoomed my screen.)

Likewise. I zoomed in on the iMac and can see this fairly clearly.

I guess the people who can't see it don't have Macs

I can see it without anything. A definite area of discolouration underneath the date between the 7 and the 6. Tell tale mark of a rubbed away H

[headsortails]

this is a better quality with a missing H

I can make out the entire right hand upright of the H, and the top half of the left. (I zoomed my screen.)

Likewise. I zoomed in on the iMac and can see this fairly clearly.

I guess the people who can't see it don't have Macs

I can see it without anything. A definite area of discolouration underneath the date between the 7 and the 6. Tell tale mark of a rubbed away H

daz if the coin is real get it xrayed it won't cost a lot, all they do on this site is take the piss.if you won't you can contact me it's alan - plantdav@gmail.com

[argentumandcoins]

this is a better quality with a missing H

I can make out the entire right hand upright of the H, and the top half of the left. (I zoomed my screen.)

Likewise. I zoomed in on the iMac and can see this fairly clearly.

I guess the people who can't see it don't have Macs

I can see it without anything. A definite area of discolouration underneath the date between the 7 and the 6. Tell tale mark of a rubbed away H

daz if the coin is real get it xrayed it won't cost a lot, all they do on this site is take the piss.if you won't you can contact me it's alan - plantdav@gmail.com

Alan,

Who exactly is taking the Piss?

I now make my living selling coins and working as an independant consultant for auction houses.

I don't handle 200-300 coins a year, I average that number in a day. The coin has clearly been altered and then made to look distressed, that is obvious from the vertical smear mark showing down Britannias arm.

If you want proof it is an attempt to decieve send it to me and I will pay the £50 submission cost to Robert Matthews to have him write a full report on why it is an altered coin.

Sorry if you feel slighted in any way, that was not my intent.

John.

[1949threepence]

Taking the piss ?

I've just sent an e mail to the Royal Mint requesting information under the Freedom of Information Act. The e mail reads as follows:-

Hi,

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION REQUEST

My name is xxxxxxx, and my address is xxxxxxxx Warwickshire, xxxxxxx. My telephone number is (xxxxxxxx

I would like to ask the following archival type question regarding a British pre decimal penny:-

Does the Royal Mint have any record of any pennies being issued from the London Mint in 1876 ~ ie: ones not bearing a "H". Or do the records show that all the pennies issues that year were produced by the Heaton Mint ?

Thanks for your time.

xxxxxxxxxx

15 May 2012

It's just that, unlike the 1882 no H, which itself is suspect in my opinion, I've never even heard of an 1876 no H which is anywhere near convincing.

I'll reproduce the response on here.

Just as a reminder, this is what they said about the 1882 last year:-

----- Original Message ----- From: Joseph Payne To: Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 1:21 PMSubject: The Royal Mint

Dear Mr

I am writing in reply to your Freedom of Information request of 30 April.

To take each of your questions in turn:

(1) The Royal Mint Annual Report for 1882 states that no bronze coinage was struck at the Royal Mint during the year and that all the bronze coinage required was executed in Birmingham. We are aware however that an un-mintmarked type is recorded in standard catalogues.

(2) We are unable to break down the mintage figure for 1926-dated pennies into the two different types.

(3) The 1954-dated penny is listed as unique in standard catalogues but we are unable to say for certain that only one survived from the trial run of several hundreds.

(4) No 1953-dated pennies were issued for general circulation.

Yours sincerely

Joseph Payne

Assistant Curator

The Royal Mint

Not a pisstake, the real thing

Edited May 15, 2012 by 1949threepence

[Peter]

Nice questions and at least a reply.

A 1953 in less than UNC is RARE How many were spent at the tuck shop?

I have bought a few 1953 plastic sets (all under £6)...worth splitting and selling to the Ebay mugs.

John...keep your 1971 decimal sets.

The 1970 proof sets are also worth splitting for the uneducated masses.

[argentumandcoins]

Nice questions and at least a reply.

A 1953 in less than UNC is RARE How many were spent at the tuck shop?

I have bought a few 1953 plastic sets (all under £6)...worth splitting and selling to the Ebay mugs.

John...keep your 1971 decimal sets.

The 1970 proof sets are also worth splitting for the uneducated masses.

Peter if you want them I will gladly send you all I have at absolutely no charge (yes, I know I can spend the 2p and 1p). Who said I was a heartless git? Oh, yes, it was my ex (well all of them actually)

[Peter]

Nice questions and at least a reply.

A 1953 in less than UNC is RARE How many were spent at the tuck shop?

I have bought a few 1953 plastic sets (all under £6)...worth splitting and selling to the Ebay mugs.

John...keep your 1971 decimal sets.

The 1970 proof sets are also worth splitting for the uneducated masses.

Peter if you want them I will gladly send you all I have at absolutely no charge (yes, I know I can spend the 2p and 1p). Who said I was a heartless git? Oh, yes, it was my ex (well all of them actually)

Trouble is John you would put canny cheap steamed off stamps on the packet so I would have to pay the extra charge and take the Lada up to the sorting office and get mugged by the tented Eastern European buddies for the wheels.

[headsortails]

this is a better quality with a missing H

I can make out the entire right hand upright of the H, and the top half of the left. (I zoomed my screen.)

Likewise. I zoomed in on the iMac and can see this fairly clearly.

I guess the people who can't see it don't have Macs

I can see it without anything. A definite area of discolouration underneath the date between the 7 and the 6. Tell tale mark of a rubbed away H

daz if the coin is real get it xrayed it won't cost a lot, all they do on this site is take the piss.if you won't you can contact me it's alan - plantdav@gmail.com

Alan,

Who exactly is taking the Piss?

I now make my living selling coins and working as an independant consultant for auction houses.

I don't handle 200-300 coins a year, I average that number in a day. The coin has clearly been altered and then made to look distressed, that is obvious from the vertical smear mark showing down Britannias arm.

If you want proof it is an attempt to decieve send it to me and I will pay the £50 submission cost to Robert Matthews to have him write a full report on why it is an altered coin.

Sorry if you feel slighted in any way, that was not my intent.

John.

sorry who is taking the piss? and I can't see a vertical smear mark John

[argentumandcoins]

Alan, you're right, I'm wrong. Laurie Bamford and Michael Gouby were/are wrong as well. The 1876 was struck at London and this is obviously the best example extant. Sorry for wasting your time.

Daz if you want to sell it I'll put it through an auction with a £20-£30k estimate for you.

[davidrj]

Alan, you're right, I'm wrong. Laurie Bamford and Michael Gouby were/are wrong as well. The 1876 was struck at London and this is obviously the best example extant. Sorry for wasting your time.

Daz if you want to sell it I'll put it through an auction with a £20-£30k estimate for you.

A definite faint H in my opinion, but not faked more likely a filled die ( which is both Bamford and Gouby's view of the 1876 no H)

Not sure whether there's artificial toning, just looks like muck to me, a soak on acetone on even a gentle wash in warm soapy water would improve what looks to be nice coin

Edited May 16, 2012 by davidrj

[daz]

Boy did that post get some replies!

For the record very close inspection doesn't show any form of rubbing etc around the "missing" H area so does not appear to be a removed H, but I do also believe you can make out a very light H

I wanted the image to show as I believe, it is a blocked die nothing more and hope the better quality, none worn coin would prove this as I feel it does.

20K for it lol yeh right, more likely just 3 figures at a push as an interesting oddity.

Also it wasn't sold as a missing H as it was found in a bulk lot along with a narrow date 1896 and a 1946 with the dot after one, not a bad £5 spent

[Peckris]

Boy did that post get some replies!

For the record very close inspection doesn't show any form of rubbing etc around the "missing" H area so does not appear to be a removed H, but I do also believe you can make out a very light H

I wanted the image to show as I believe, it is a blocked die nothing more and hope the better quality, none worn coin would prove this as I feel it does.

20K for it lol yeh right, more likely just 3 figures at a push as an interesting oddity.

Also it wasn't sold as a missing H as it was found in a bulk lot along with a narrow date 1896 and a 1946 with the dot after one, not a bad £5 spent

Bargain!

[1949threepence]

Here is the reply I received from the Royal Mint regarding pennies minted in 1876:-

Dear Mr

Thank you for your enquiry of 15 May concerning the 1876 penny.

Our records show that owing to a breakdown of machinery in 1875, bronze coins of 1876 were struck at the Heaton Mint. I have included an extract from the Royal Mint’s Annual Report for that year that provides details of this arrangement.

Yours sincerely

Chris Barker

Assistant Curator

chris.barker@royalmintmuseum.org.uk

............................................................................

The Royal Mint Museum

Llantrisant, Pontyclun

CF72 8YT

United Kingdom

............................................................................

Tel: +44 (0) 1443 623004 (Direct)

Tel: +44 (0) 1443 222111 (Switchboard)

http://www.royalmintmuseum.org.uk

[1949threepence]

link to 1876 Royal Mint report extract

[1949threepence]

this is a better quality with a missing H

Boy did that post get some replies!

For the record very close inspection doesn't show any form of rubbing etc around the "missing" H area so does not appear to be a removed H, but I do also believe you can make out a very light H

I wanted the image to show as I believe, it is a blocked die nothing more and hope the better quality, none worn coin would prove this as I feel it does.

20K for it lol yeh right, more likely just 3 figures at a push as an interesting oddity.

Also it wasn't sold as a missing H as it was found in a bulk lot along with a narrow date 1896 and a 1946 with the dot after one, not a bad £5 spent

Although from your first post, I would never have guessed your beliefs on the matter, were as per your second

Quite the reverse in fact.

[argentumandcoins]

link to 1876 Royal Mint report extract

Thanks for the information Mike.

[headsortails]

this is a better quality with a missing H

Boy did that post get some replies!

For the record very close inspection doesn't show any form of rubbing etc around the "missing" H area so does not appear to be a removed H, but I do also believe you can make out a very light H

I wanted the image to show as I believe, it is a blocked die nothing more and hope the better quality, none worn coin would prove this as I feel it does.

20K for it lol yeh right, more likely just 3 figures at a push as an interesting oddity.

Also it wasn't sold as a missing H as it was found in a bulk lot along with a narrow date 1896 and a 1946 with the dot after one, not a bad £5 spent

Although from your first post, I would never have guessed your beliefs on the matter, were as per your second

Quite the reverse in fact.

I agree, do you only Believe or do you know about this dirty old coin with smears all over it, five quid I don't know how you sleep at night?

[Peckris]

link to 1876 Royal Mint report extract

Interesting that their letter to you states "breakdown of machinery" while the actual Report states "fully occupied with gold and silver [issues]". I wonder where the modern Mint gets its information about "breakdown" from?

[Rob]

link to 1876 Royal Mint report extract

Interesting that their letter to you states "breakdown of machinery" while the actual Report states "fully occupied with gold and silver [issues]". I wonder where the modern Mint gets its information about "breakdown" from?

I'd hazard a guess from the 1875 report. The text says that the 1876 coins were contracted out because the equipment was fully occupied striking silver and gold. The number of presses at the Tower mint would have to be investigated, but is likely to have been a minimum of half a dozen, so if a couple of them were unavailable, then sub-contracting the copper would be the logical option security-wise. Also, the Heaton mint was regularly striking coins on the same size blanks, so familiarity with the product wasn't an issue. There were a lot of halfcrowns and shillings coming off the press in 1874 onwards. How long this upsurge in demand lasted I don't know because I don't have the records, but thinking about it, the equipment probably broke down due to the excesses of the previous two years because there was no time for maintenance and a lot of coins produced.

Edited May 17, 2012 by Rob

[Peckris]

link to 1876 Royal Mint report extract

Interesting that their letter to you states "breakdown of machinery" while the actual Report states "fully occupied with gold and silver [issues]". I wonder where the modern Mint gets its information about "breakdown" from?

I'd hazard a guess from the 1875 report. The text says that the 1876 coins were contracted out because the equipment was fully occupied striking silver and gold. The number of presses at the Tower mint would have to be investigated, but is likely to have been a minimum of half a dozen, so if a couple of them were unavailable, then sub-contracting the copper would be the logical option security-wise. Also, the Heaton mint was regularly striking coins on the same size blanks, so familiarity with the product wasn't an issue. There were a lot of halfcrowns and shillings coming off the press in 1874 onwards. How long this upsurge in demand lasted I don't know because I don't have the records, but thinking about it, the equipment probably broke down due to the excesses of the previous two years because there was no time for maintenance and a lot of coins produced.

That makes logical sense. I wonder where the 1875 100 tons comes from - the penny is rare so must we assume it is mostly made up from halfpennies and farthings? I know Heaton's farthing issue for 1875 was pretty sizeable