1926 Penny

[Guest Mike]

New member here. Hello everyone, and what a great website. So, for my first post...

Anyone know why the 1926 penny (Freeman 193, NOT 195) is more elusive - and expensive - than pennies of similar mintage e.g. 1894 and 1947? My starter collection has the somewhat-to-be-expected holes for 1869 and 1871, and 1926 too.

Thanks,

Mike

[Red Riley]

New member here. Hello everyone, and what a great website. So, for my first post...

Anyone know why the 1926 penny (Freeman 193, NOT 195) is more elusive - and expensive - than pennies of similar mintage e.g. 1894 and 1947? My starter collection has the somewhat-to-be-expected holes for 1869 and 1871, and 1926 too.

Thanks,

Mike

Hi Mike, welcome to the forum. I guess you got this info from Collectors' Coins 2008. I hadn't noticed it before, but the mintage figure for 1947 contains a typo, the actual mintage figure for coins sent out by the mint in that year should be 52,220,400, so not rare at all. In any event, looking at the prices, 1926 is far cheaper than 1894. As 1894 pennies were in circulation for far longer, the average grade they turn up in is much lower, hence anything in fine actually has a value whereas for 1926 pennies, fine coins are commonplace and are worth literally nothing. You should also take mintage figures with a pinch of salt, as they do not refer to how many coins carried a particular date, but to how many were actually issued in that year - many of which will carry the previous year's date. Similarly, the following year's production may include coins carrying the date of the current year.

You shouldn't find that 1926 too difficult to lay hands on.

[scott]

looking at the mintage for 1926 penny in collectors coins GB it only shows 4,498,519, which is less then the 1919H, so they are scarce, but yes the mintages do carry over, looking at the valuations though a VF 1926 penny is worth £20, so maybe it is low mintage (and yes i do mean the 193), i have one myself but it is in the sort of condition you normally find these old pennies in.

[Red Riley]

looking at the mintage for 1926 penny in collectors coins GB it only shows 4,498,519, which is less then the 1919H, so they are scarce, but yes the mintages do carry over, looking at the valuations though a VF 1926 penny is worth £20, so maybe it is low mintage (and yes i do mean the 193), i have one myself but it is in the sort of condition you normally find these old pennies in.

You're confusing me! My book says £5 for VF. I do remember these things in circulation and yes, they were scarce in comparison with other pennies (about the same as a 1932, more common than an 18H or 19H) but they did turn up pretty regularly. Given that the melt-down figure from the mint was vastly less than total production, you might find maybe 1-2 million still kicking about, so basically a pretty common coin.

[scott]

was only posting what collectors coin GB says for minting figues and value, compared to other penny minting figues 1-2 milliopn is not that many most pennies are around 40-50 million mintage, except for those KH and H ones of course, my 1999 coins market values lists it as worthless at VF , there is a site selling a 1926 in under for £2.50 btw so you can get them cheap

1932 has 8,277,600 mintage only, but is only worth a fraction more then 1931

1947 has 2,220,400 but worth the same as others around it

[Peckris]

You have to understand one thing very clearly - ALL coin catalogues are inaccurate with respect to mintages, and have been since 1971. There is no reason why the 1926 penny should be any harder to find than any first series penny. If anything, they should be easier, as everyone looked out for them from 1967 to 1971 and saved them, which no-one bothered to do for the "common" dates. (Ditto for 1922, 1932).

What keeps these so-called 'scarce dates' valuable is that the coin-buying public still buys into the scarcity myth - no doubt fed by mintage figures which have absolutely no relation to any reality post-1971. In fact, I wish someone would undertake a widespread survey to establish just what is the precise relative scarcity of one date to another.

[1949threepence]

You have to understand one thing very clearly - ALL coin catalogues are inaccurate with respect to mintages, and have been since 1971. There is no reason why the 1926 penny should be any harder to find than any first series penny. If anything, they should be easier, as everyone looked out for them from 1967 to 1971 and saved them, which no-one bothered to do for the "common" dates. (Ditto for 1922, 1932).

What keeps these so-called 'scarce dates' valuable is that the coin-buying public still buys into the scarcity myth - no doubt fed by mintage figures which have absolutely no relation to any reality post-1971. In fact, I wish someone would undertake a widespread survey to establish just what is the precise relative scarcity of one date to another.

Tell that to the collector trying to get an uncirculated 1926 modified head penny

Seriously though, I know what you mean. As you say there are a number of "common" dates which are actually harder to find in BU than apparently "scarce" or at any rate "scarcer" dates, in the same condition. For me the classic example has to be the 1953 penny ~ obviously collected and stored extensively at the time, being the Queen's coronation year, and all that ~ but woth just £4.00 book value in uncirculated, notwithstanding the low 1,308,400 mintage.

I think any serious collector is well aware of the difficult years for each denomination, which, whilst including the classic ones, like the 1932 florin, 1905 shilling, 1919kn penny, 1926 ME penny, but also much less obvious ones, like, as we mentioned in a different thread, the 1921 shilling.

[Peckris]

You have to understand one thing very clearly - ALL coin catalogues are inaccurate with respect to mintages, and have been since 1971. There is no reason why the 1926 penny should be any harder to find than any first series penny. If anything, they should be easier, as everyone looked out for them from 1967 to 1971 and saved them, which no-one bothered to do for the "common" dates. (Ditto for 1922, 1932).

What keeps these so-called 'scarce dates' valuable is that the coin-buying public still buys into the scarcity myth - no doubt fed by mintage figures which have absolutely no relation to any reality post-1971. In fact, I wish someone would undertake a widespread survey to establish just what is the precise relative scarcity of one date to another.

Tell that to the collector trying to get an uncirculated 1926 modified head penny

Seriously though, I know what you mean. As you say there are a number of "common" dates which are actually harder to find in BU than apparently "scarce" or at any rate "scarcer" dates, in the same condition. For me the classic example has to be the 1953 penny ~ obviously collected and stored extensively at the time, being the Queen's coronation year, and all that ~ but woth just £4.00 book value in uncirculated, notwithstanding the low 1,308,400 mintage.

I think any serious collector is well aware of the difficult years for each denomination, which, whilst including the classic ones, like the 1932 florin, 1905 shilling, 1919kn penny, 1926 ME penny, but also much less obvious ones, like, as we mentioned in a different thread, the 1921 shilling.

Hahaha - I should have specifically excluded the 1926 ME penny from my previous point. Oh boy, I would LOVE a BU one - wouldn't we all?

For pennies, I would say 1914 - 1916, 1930 and 1931 are seriously underrated in BU. But also - judging purely on list values - the 1946 penny in Unc isn't nearly as easy as the book suggests. I'd also say that Unc 1958 and 1959 halfcrowns are somewhat overrated, especially in comparison to all 1950s florins.

Actually, I wasn't really referring to Unc coins as the number of those saved from the Great Smelt Down was probably largely unaffected. And I guess that the 1953 penny was never really intended for circulation anyway, being sold only in those souvenir plastic sets. And a mintage of 1,308,400 for a commemorative is really high and beats the number of coin collectors quite easily. Similarly with the 1951 and 1953 crowns (and as for the Churchill, let's not even go there!). On the other hand, a coin created purely for true collectors, such as the Wreath crowns ...

[1949threepence]

You have to understand one thing very clearly - ALL coin catalogues are inaccurate with respect to mintages, and have been since 1971. There is no reason why the 1926 penny should be any harder to find than any first series penny. If anything, they should be easier, as everyone looked out for them from 1967 to 1971 and saved them, which no-one bothered to do for the "common" dates. (Ditto for 1922, 1932).

What keeps these so-called 'scarce dates' valuable is that the coin-buying public still buys into the scarcity myth - no doubt fed by mintage figures which have absolutely no relation to any reality post-1971. In fact, I wish someone would undertake a widespread survey to establish just what is the precise relative scarcity of one date to another.

Tell that to the collector trying to get an uncirculated 1926 modified head penny

Seriously though, I know what you mean. As you say there are a number of "common" dates which are actually harder to find in BU than apparently "scarce" or at any rate "scarcer" dates, in the same condition. For me the classic example has to be the 1953 penny ~ obviously collected and stored extensively at the time, being the Queen's coronation year, and all that ~ but woth just £4.00 book value in uncirculated, notwithstanding the low 1,308,400 mintage.

I think any serious collector is well aware of the difficult years for each denomination, which, whilst including the classic ones, like the 1932 florin, 1905 shilling, 1919kn penny, 1926 ME penny, but also much less obvious ones, like, as we mentioned in a different thread, the 1921 shilling.

Hahaha - I should have specifically excluded the 1926 ME penny from my previous point. Oh boy, I would LOVE a BU one - wouldn't we all?

For pennies, I would say 1914 - 1916, 1930 and 1931 are seriously underrated in BU. But also - judging purely on list values - the 1946 penny in Unc isn't nearly as easy as the book suggests. I'd also say that Unc 1958 and 1959 halfcrowns are somewhat overrated, especially in comparison to all 1950s florins.

Actually, I wasn't really referring to Unc coins as the number of those saved from the Great Smelt Down was probably largely unaffected. And I guess that the 1953 penny was never really intended for circulation anyway, being sold only in those souvenir plastic sets. And a mintage of 1,308,400 for a commemorative is really high and beats the number of coin collectors quite easily. Similarly with the 1951 and 1953 crowns (and as for the Churchill, let's not even go there!). On the other hand, a coin created purely for true collectors, such as the Wreath crowns ...

I've been collecting since I was 12, and the best 1926ME penny, I've even seen, let alone bought, was a VF example.

Even if you've got the money, you would have to be very patient to get a high grade one, as they do not come on the market every 5 minutes

The one I've got is barely fine, probably no better than fair, with the reverse lettering slightly rubbed.

[1949threepence]

On the subject of really rare coins, I wonder if the story contained in this wikipedia entry is true ? I would bet that it is

The seven known examples of the 1933 penny are located in:

British Museum (a 'circulation' penny)

Royal Mint Museum at Llantrisant in South Wales (a 'circulation' penny)

One held in private hands (ex L A Lawrence, P G Smith and Mrs E M Norweb) (a 'circulation' penny)

Under the foundation stone of the University of London Building in Bloomsbury, London (a 'proof' penny)

One held in private hands. Ex St. Mary's Church, Hawksworth Wood, Kirkstall, Leeds. (Ex Sotheby 1972 in private hands ever since) (a 'proof' penny)

Whereabouts unknown, previously under the foundation stone of the Church of St Cross, Middleton - part of a 1933 year set which was stolen in August 1970 (a 'proof' penny)

One held in private hands in the UK (Ex Glendinings 1969 and in private collections ever since (a 'circulation' penny)

Remarkably, one 1933 penny made a form of public appearance around 1967/68. A loan company ran a national advert in UK newspapers with the headline "Fourpence could bring you up to £3,000", referring to the cost of posting an application. Sharp-eyed readers noticed that one of the four coins in the accompanying photograph was actually a 1933 penny, and one wrote in, asking "Why ask for £3,000 when one of the coins is worth that alone?".

When creating the advert originally, the photo had been produced using recent, shiny coins. However it was decided that the coins were too reflective and older pennies were substituted. One of the staff simply pulled out some coins from his pocket, and one of these was a 1933 penny, which went completely unnoticed by anyone. After the photos were taken, he took the coins back again and later spent them.

How unlucky was that guy ?

Edited July 19, 2009 by 1949threepence

[Red Riley]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. A nice tale, but one I think I would have remembered as I was collecting at the time, but it fails to stir a chord in the old memory cells. Would have been more feasible if a copy of the advert had been provided.

Sadly, I think this is someone trying to create a sensation and Wikipedia would do well to check the article.

On the other hand (and I believe I've posted about this before), there were a number of extremely good forgeries going the rounds a few years ago where a 1935 penny had been cleverly re-cut by carefully lowering the height of the exergue field and re-cutting the 5 into a 3. The only easy way to tell was that the re-cut 5 was a fraction of a degree off vertical when compared with a genuine 1933. Still a good try, and a genuine forgery(!) would now be worth quite a bit of money.

[Coppers]

Agreed. A good story and if there is any truth to it likely an altered penny.

[1949threepence]

I'm sorry, but I don't buy it. A nice tale, but one I think I would have remembered as I was collecting at the time, but it fails to stir a chord in the old memory cells. Would have been more feasible if a copy of the advert had been provided.

Sadly, I think this is someone trying to create a sensation and Wikipedia would do well to check the article.

On the other hand (and I believe I've posted about this before), there were a number of extremely good forgeries going the rounds a few years ago where a 1935 penny had been cleverly re-cut by carefully lowering the height of the exergue field and re-cutting the 5 into a 3. The only easy way to tell was that the re-cut 5 was a fraction of a degree off vertical when compared with a genuine 1933. Still a good try, and a genuine forgery(!) would now be worth quite a bit of money.

Well I have now tried Googling it, and the wiki entry is the only reference to the "incident", as far as I can see. So you may well be right.

I know if I had been collecting at the time, and I'd heard about it, I most definitely wouldn't have forgotten it.

Agreed. A good story and if there is any truth to it likely an altered penny.

If it did happen, it could also have been a deliberate publicity stunt by the company concerned, in order to attract attention (as opposed to a real find)

[Peter]

I can clearly recall my parents talking about this as it was the hype leading up to decimalisation and the beginning of Rotograhic and "Check your change"

I was allowed to sift through their card money tin and my father worked at an agriculture outlet which had a till so I amassed quite a few key dates and Victorian coins.

[Peckris]

I've been collecting since I was 12, and the best 1926ME penny, I've even seen, let alone bought, was a VF example.

Even if you've got the money, you would have to be very patient to get a high grade one, as they do not come on the market every 5 minutes

The one I've got is barely fine, probably no better than fair, with the reverse lettering slightly rubbed.

Interestingly, when I began collecting from change (as a schoolboy), I waited absolute ages for a 1926 penny of any type to appear, then I was given one in change by a bus conductor. It was another year before I had enough experience to know it was the Modified Effigy ! (A really good F - lots of hair detail - I've still got it ). I got another (F) in change before decimalisation which I sold to an antiques shop a few years later.

About 7 years ago I saw a really nice GVF example at an auction (actually veering towards NEF but the strike was weakish). I decided it was well worth more than £100 of my money, and I was wished good luck by a dealer friend who dropped out at the ton mark. Then I had to drop out when it got too high and it finally went for around £375. So I'm hanging on tightly to the VF I bought off Cookie for £39

[1949threepence]

I've been collecting since I was 12, and the best 1926ME penny, I've even seen, let alone bought, was a VF example.

Even if you've got the money, you would have to be very patient to get a high grade one, as they do not come on the market every 5 minutes

The one I've got is barely fine, probably no better than fair, with the reverse lettering slightly rubbed.

Interestingly, when I began collecting from change (as a schoolboy), I waited absolute ages for a 1926 penny of any type to appear, then I was given one in change by a bus conductor. It was another year before I had enough experience to know it was the Modified Effigy ! (A really good F - lots of hair detail - I've still got it ). I got another (F) in change before decimalisation which I sold to an antiques shop a few years later.

You are so lucky to have lived in the days when lsd was circulating. If I'd been around then, I'm sure I'd have been making a nuisance of myself in banks, buying pound bags of pennies to sort through

About 7 years ago I saw a really nice GVF example at an auction (actually veering towards NEF but the strike was weakish). I decided it was well worth more than £100 of my money, and I was wished good luck by a dealer friend who dropped out at the ton mark. Then I had to drop out when it got too high and it finally went for around £375. So I'm hanging on tightly to the VF I bought off Cookie for £39

I bet that if an uncirculated example was auctioned it would easily fetch more than the £1500 book price.

[1949threepence]

You are so lucky to have lived in the days when lsd was circulating. If I'd been around then, I'm sure I'd have been making a nuisance of myself in banks, buying pound bags of pennies to sort through........

.........Not to mention scanning the lines of coins paraded in those "penny falls" machines in amusement halls, to see if there were any there worth trying to coax out (sad but extremely enthusiastic git that I am)

[Gary D]

You are so lucky to have lived in the days when lsd was circulating. If I'd been around then, I'm sure I'd have been making a nuisance of myself in banks, buying pound bags of pennies to sort through........

.........Not to mention scanning the lines of coins paraded in those "penny falls" machines in amusement halls, to see if there were any there worth trying to coax out (sad but extremely enthusiastic git that I am)

On a saturday morning I would take my £1 2/6 paper round money and go into the Lloyds bank next to the paper shop and get £1 bags of 1d 1/2d etc until I could not make up the £1 any more

[scott]

some places still have those old machines complete with the pennies to run them. just have to find them

[Red Riley]

some places still have those old machines complete with the pennies to run them. just have to find them

I suspect though, that the pennies have been well and truly scanned by now and anything remotely valuable has long been whisked away.

[1949threepence]

You are so lucky to have lived in the days when lsd was circulating. If I'd been around then, I'm sure I'd have been making a nuisance of myself in banks, buying pound bags of pennies to sort through........

.........Not to mention scanning the lines of coins paraded in those "penny falls" machines in amusement halls, to see if there were any there worth trying to coax out (sad but extremely enthusiastic git that I am)

On a saturday morning I would take my £1 2/6 paper round money and go into the Lloyds bank next to the paper shop and get £1 bags of 1d 1/2d etc until I could not make up the £1 any more

Did you ever find any that were worth keeping, Gary ? (and have you still got any of them)

[1949threepence]

some places still have those old machines complete with the pennies to run them. just have to find them

I suspect though, that the pennies have been well and truly scanned by now and anything remotely valuable has long been whisked away.

Indeed, those halcyon days are long gone, and alas, I was never a part of them

[Peckris]

You are so lucky to have lived in the days when lsd was circulating. If I'd been around then, I'm sure I'd have been making a nuisance of myself in banks, buying pound bags of pennies to sort through........

.........Not to mention scanning the lines of coins paraded in those "penny falls" machines in amusement halls, to see if there were any there worth trying to coax out (sad but extremely enthusiastic git that I am)

On a saturday morning I would take my £1 2/6 paper round money and go into the Lloyds bank next to the paper shop and get £1 bags of 1d 1/2d etc until I could not make up the £1 any more

Did you ever find any that were worth keeping, Gary ? (and have you still got any of them)

Although my name's not Gary, I've only just caught up with the end of this convo. (By the way, I seem to remember those bank bags of pennies were 5/- not £1, I never had £1 spare in those days!).

What pennies did I find? One 1953, two 1936 in EF, four 1946 mint dot, the usual hoard of 1922, 1926 (not ME!), and 1932, no end of Edw VII and Victoria Veiled Head, never more than AF, quite a few 1912H, a few 1919H, two not very good 1918KN, various nearly flat bun pennies ... nothing to disturb Glendinings over.

I had slightly better luck with halfpennies : a 1938 BU, 1935 GEF with lustre, and 1909 GVF.

I still have all the ones worth keeping, but have shed most of the dreck.

[scott]

yea same with the collection i got, my great grandad saved em up in 67... sout of what? 200-250 coins majority was average grade, nothing special in there, some nice reverse 1908s (only fine those reverses)a fine grade 1900 but there was an 1860 and an 1861 and 1864 serif 4(all very worn, i might show you those.. well the 61 is unidentifiable but the 60 is maybe just about and the 64 is..well a 64).

[Gary D]

You are so lucky to have lived in the days when lsd was circulating. If I'd been around then, I'm sure I'd have been making a nuisance of myself in banks, buying pound bags of pennies to sort through........

.........Not to mention scanning the lines of coins paraded in those "penny falls" machines in amusement halls, to see if there were any there worth trying to coax out (sad but extremely enthusiastic git that I am)

On a saturday morning I would take my £1 2/6 paper round money and go into the Lloyds bank next to the paper shop and get £1 bags of 1d 1/2d etc until I could not make up the £1 any more

Did you ever find any that were worth keeping, Gary ? (and have you still got any of them)

Although my name's not Gary, I've only just caught up with the end of this convo. (By the way, I seem to remember those bank bags of pennies were 5/- not £1, I never had £1 spare in those days!).

What pennies did I find? One 1953, two 1936 in EF, four 1946 mint dot, the usual hoard of 1922, 1926 (not ME!), and 1932, no end of Edw VII and Victoria Veiled Head, never more than AF, quite a few 1912H, a few 1919H, two not very good 1918KN, various nearly flat bun pennies ... nothing to disturb Glendinings over.

I had slightly better luck with halfpennies : a 1938 BU, 1935 GEF with lustre, and 1909 GVF.

I still have all the ones worth keeping, but have shed most of the dreck.

Sorry I missed the question to me. I manage to build a significant part of my collection as I was only interested in date runs at time, no that I'm not still. I don't think I have any of the original collection left know as I have been exstensively upgrading in the past 3-4 years.

Gary