Guest Bob Crawford Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 I have a 1861 English (Victorian) penny, that has a clear overdate. It is a 1861, that has been stamped over an 1881. The coin is in EF condition. I can't find any information on price or rarity. Does anyone have any information on this coin? Thanks in advance for your reply. Bob...(RLC35@aol.com). Indianapolis, IN, USA. Quote
custard1966 Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 Hi BobThis is catalogued as Freeman 30 or Gouby BP 1861 LGouby estimates, R8 - 11-50 in existenceFreeman R18, 6-15 in existenceJohn Jerrams (in 2003) notes 12 in existence with the best known being nEF and list a price of 1200 GBPTo be honest, if this coin really is EF then it's likely to be the best example extant and therefore catalogue prices are meaningless. A fine specimen sold for £1000 in a private sale around a year ago.Hope this helps. Quote
Master Jmd Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 (edited) Can you get a picture of this coin? I'm interested to see what it looks like... and plus it might help determine if the coin you have is what you say it is. Edited December 31, 2005 by Master Jmd Quote
RLC35 Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 I have a 1861 English (Victorian) penny, that has a clear overdate. It is a 1861, that has been stamped over an 1881. The coin is in EF condition. I can't find any information on price or rarity. Does anyone have any information on this coin? Thanks in advance for your reply. Bob...(RLC35@aol.com). Indianapolis, IN, USA. Picture of overdate Quote
custard1966 Posted December 31, 2005 Posted December 31, 2005 Bob sent me some picsThe overdate is clear, but there's not enough of the coin depicted to grade it - I'll ask for some more Quote
custard1966 Posted January 1, 2006 Posted January 1, 2006 It's clearly not EF.The reverse is hard to judge from the pic, but I'd say gF to aVFStill worth a few bob though & I wish it was mine Quote
Chris Perkins Posted January 1, 2006 Posted January 1, 2006 And thanks for buying my book Bob! 1 Quote
custard1966 Posted January 21, 2006 Posted January 21, 2006 This one (which looks very similar) was on E-Bay last weekhttp://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1 - and now it's mine Quote
Bronze & Copper Collector Posted January 24, 2006 Posted January 24, 2006 Nice coins Bob & Custard.... Both a bit better than mine.....Both also displaying the first 1 over 1 in the date........ A characteristic that I've noticed on ALL the specimens that I have seen so far..... Quote
RLC35 Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 B&C Collector,I never looked at the first "1", but I will when I get back to Indiana from California. I guess I was concentrating on the 6/8 only. I did notice the first one looked a little differant than the second one, in the date. Thanks for the info!Bob Quote
Bronze & Copper Collector Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 No problem,we all learn from one another...... Quote
custard1966 Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 Nice coins Bob & Custard.... Both a bit better than mine.....Both also displaying the first 1 over 1 in the date........ A characteristic that I've noticed on ALL the specimens that I have seen so far.....It's unlikely there'd be more than one die for this variant so you'd expect them all to have the same features (all the N over sideway N in ONE examples have the 0 of the date over another 0).To be honest, with coins of this rarity1. You take any one you can get2. Condition is almost irrelevant, so long as the differentiating feature(s) are clear. You'd have to pay 2 or 3 times the cost of the examples we have for that EF one that's the finest available and I don't think it's worth it. If I've got one of the < 20 examples that's good enough for me - the rarity is inherent in the existence of the coin itself whereas for other coins - e.g. a BU 1918H - the rarity is in the condition of the coin. Quote
Bronze & Copper Collector Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 Well said...A RARITY is RARE.. regardless of its condition..... and they are always CLASSIC, IDENTIFIABLE, and in DEMAND...... Quote
Bronze & Copper Collector Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 PS: In reference to the N/Z, In adddition to the N/Z and the recut O in one, I think they all also have a recut or doubled A in Victoria on the obverse... Quote
Bronze & Copper Collector Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 Sorry, I couldn't edit my response above to add the following......The 5 examples that I have had at one time or another, as well as the few others that I have seen, all had this trait as well..... Quote
custard1966 Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 Sorry, I couldn't edit my response above to add the following......The 5 examples that I have had at one time or another, as well as the few others that I have seen, all had this trait as well.....Mine's the same.As is this one Michael Gouby's in the process of sellinghttp://www.michael-coins.co.uk/bp_1860_k.htmThay all seem to have die cracks on the reverse too ? Quote
Peter Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 It would seem 1861 over 81 1d isn't so rare. Quote
custard1966 Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 It would seem 1861 over 81 1d isn't so rare. I hope it IS In fact I'm sure it is. I've only seen two for sale in the past 8 years - including the one I bought.Of the currency coins where there are more than a small handful extant this is pretty rare.Not only it is rare - it's desirable, the two don't always go together. Quote
Bronze & Copper Collector Posted January 25, 2006 Posted January 25, 2006 I only know of 2 (possibly 3) that have changed hands in the last few years, and about 5 in major collections. plus the one that started this thread......... even if you double that number that still only amounts to 18.......Still EXTREMELY RARE, and even more so because it is RECOGNIZED and DESIREABLE...... Quote
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