Anything else?

[Chris Perkins]

Please point me towards other unrecorded variety topics within the forum, if I missed any.

[Gary D]

How about adding the pictures and discriptions of the listed difference also, such as the shallow and deep cut 1920, double exergue line, 1946 penny 'One' die flaw??? etc.

[Chris Perkins]

In the book you mean, not here?

On here I'd just like to see evidence of unlisted stuff.

In the book though, if you have 300dpi images of the usual culprits then, please do email the to me!

[Rob]

1817/6 shilling

[Chris Perkins]

Thanks, I had one of those last year, not that nice.

I need really good images of the detail really. When that prints, it'll just look normal.

[Rob]

1 over inverted 1 in date 1787 with hearts shilling

[Chris Perkins]

Unfortunately, that's too old for the book (which starts with cartwheels at 1797).

[Rob]

The problem is trying to get scans of varieties. A camera is better but I don't have a good one. However, you can add an 1846/5 shilling to the list. You can make it out in the picture of ebay 8345114858 but it doesn't scan adequately.

[Chris Perkins]

It would never come out in print.

[Gary]

Hi Chris, you might have opened a bag of worms with this new category!

I have toyed for a while now with the idea of starting a web site for the sole purpose of listing varieties, known and unknown. One where collectors could report thier finds and also post pictures.

This is as far as I have got,

Halfpennies

At the moment this is very basic, as you can see, but would there be an interest for this sort of site?

Enough, here is my next candidate- In CCGB 2006 the 1896 Penny with wider spaced 9 and 6 is listed,

how about the 1899 Penny, wider spaced 9`s

[Chris Perkins]

There probably would, but making people find it and use it would be something else. For that kind of thing you would need a quite large and varied number of numismatists who collect various things to report on their types. And, I predict you'd probably have trouble confirming them! For example, an Australian emailed me the other day convinced that he had 1855 pennies, both plain trident with far colon and close colon. When I saw the pictures, although both worn, one was clearly ornamental!

I think I'd only ever include varieties that I have seen photgraphic evidence, or the coin with my own eyes. Can you start another forum in this new area entitled 1899 wide date penny and put a copy of the picture in there?

And also, do you have bigger, higher quality images to email me?

[Rob]

We are getting into the realms of exponential expansion here. A slight variation in the position of the last digit is just individual die variations. If there were 50 dies, then you have 50 varieties. I don't think you will find too many collectors specialising in Freeman 150 varieties. Errors are a different thing and will always have a relatively large following.

[Chris Perkins]

If die varieties are obvious to the naked eye on an average coin, and something different, as is the 1899 example above, then I see no harm in pointing them out in the book.

I know what you mean though, and I'd really rather not go into the depth that Freeman etc go into!

[Rob]

Unfortunately, that's too old for the book (which starts with cartwheels at 1797).

I knew there was a reason for not using it, but I had forgotten. I have never understood why it doesn't go back the 130 years or so to the start of milled, after all the number of low grade pieces dated prior to 1797 on eBay is testament to the potential market. Everyone knows what a dump halfpenny is and also appears to have one! It doesn't have to be all encompassing, but there is no separate milled or hammered guide available in simplified form.

[Chris Perkins]

It used to go back to just 1821, but I thought that illogical so pushed it back to 1797 as it marks the start of proper round machine made coins. In the future it could go back further, but then there will be the extra printing costs and weight to consider. With an under £5.00 price it can't contain everything.

The best thing would be the Sylvester book covering milled up to 1800.

[Rob]

is this any better?

[Gary]

We are getting into the realms of exponential expansion here. A slight variation in the position of the last digit is just individual die variations

I agree with Chris on this one, if it can clearly be seen then it should be mentioned. After all the 1926 Modified penny is very hard to tell on circulated coins, unless one knows exactly what to look for. The best indicator is the initials BM and these are not too easy to see on circulated coins. As we know the 1926 modified penny commands high prices and only because it has very minor changes in the design, almost undetectable to the naked eye.

Die problems were almost a thing of the past by the 1890`s so when a coin crops up which is different then it should be mentioned. The 1926 Penny was considered important because it was the only major design variation, even though the changes were minor, since ca.1879.

On the other hand Rob has a point, I have 3 1896 penny coins, one I consider normal and two where the spacing between the 9 and 6 is different, using the number of teeth between the tail of the 9 and the 6 as a reference. The difference between the two wide spaced dates is minimal, half a tooth, so I agree with Rob that this difference is outside the scope of a general book on coins.

[Rob]

Maybe a better approach would be to note at the bottom of each section the major variations found on the issue such as a small picture explaining that the last digit can vary in position between dies such as below and which is not a different reverse design variety together with another similar style picture comparing genuine wide and narrow dates

[Rob]

compared to this

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

1854/4 penny

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

1854 doubled date penny

[custard1966]

We are getting into the realms of exponential expansion here. A slight variation in the position of the last digit is just individual die variations

I agree with Chris on this one, if it can clearly be seen then it should be mentioned. After all the 1926 Modified penny is very hard to tell on circulated coins, unless one knows exactly what to look for. The best indicator is the initials BM and these are not too easy to see on circulated coins. As we know the 1926 modified penny commands high prices and only because it has very minor changes in the design, almost undetectable to the naked eye.

I think there is actually an easy way to spot the Modified Effigy Penny which works for even very worn coins

Look at the colon between GRA and BRITT

on the normal coin it's midway between A and B

on the modified effigy it's right next to the A

As Michael Gouby says on his website most date spacing variants are not of any special interest - especially when it's only one digit.

[custard1966]

I have an 1841 penny with the 4 over an 8

This was listed in Bramah's book - which I've not seen - but it's not listed by anyone else.

I only have a scanner so I don't know if I could get a good image of it.

I'm not sure whether overdates where the numerals are the same are significant. These are very common and John Jerrams doesn't regard them as indicating significant rarity or value.

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

1860 F-10 with a "flying ship"... Probably from polished dies which created a larger gap betweent he ship and the sea... also with an recut D on the obverse... see next post.....

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

1860 F-10 with a "flying ship"... Probably from polished dies which created a larger gap betweent he ship and the sea... also with an recut D on the obverse... see previous post.....