1873 Victoria shilling – die number 32 – possible unrecorded genuine example?

[David WSGG]

Hi all,

I’m hoping to get some opinions on an 1873 Queen Victoria shilling with die number 32 that I recently found metal detecting in Victoria, Australia.

The coin was recovered about 4 inches deep in soil in bushland on the outskirts of Bendigo. It weighs approximately 5.57 g and has a normal-looking milled edge. I’ve attached photos of the obverse, reverse, die number and edge.

What has made me particularly interested is that I have been unable to find die 32 listed among the known genuine 1873 shillings in the published and collector die-number lists I’ve checked. The sequence seems to include 30, 31, then 34, 35, with 32 absent.

However, Gary Oddie’s BNS paper on Victorian shilling counterfeits specifically records 1873 die 32 among the known contemporary counterfeits. That raises an interesting question: was the counterfeit copied from a genuine Royal Mint die-32 shilling, or was 32 only present on a counterfeit die?

The coin appears struck rather than obviously cast, and at approximately 5.57 g it is close to the normal weight for a genuine shilling. The edge milling also looks regular, with no obvious casting seam, although I appreciate none of this is enough to establish authenticity.

I’d be very interested to know:

Has anyone here seen or recorded a genuine 1873 die 32?

Does anyone have a photograph or record of the 1873/32 contemporary counterfeit referred to by Gary Oddie?

Do the die number, date position, wreath and other reverse details on this coin look consistent with normal Royal Mint production?

If it proves genuine, could this potentially be the first recorded surviving example of 1873 reverse die 32?

Any thoughts or references would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
David
Victoria, Australia

[Paddy]

Welcome @David WSGG.

I can't see anything wrong with your coin, so I would say is genuine.

Die numbers are a bit of enigma. The lists that have been generated are not from the RM and merely represent those that have been identified by various collectors. As has been discussed on here before, the lists are not expected to be exhaustive, new ones are occasionally being found. There are not many ardent collectors or collators of die numbers, so a new discovery does not create as much excitement as a new variety of, say, a penny. 

I believe the list you have referred to is this: https://www.coins-of-the-uk.co.uk/dieno.html which does indeed miss out the 32 for 1873. Tony Clayton, who runs this page, would probably be the most interested in your discovery, but I can't seem to find an email address for him on his pages. Maybe someone else on here knows it?

Ah - just found an email: tony@tonyclayton.org.uk

Edited 2 hours ago by Paddy
Added email

[Citizen H]

Hello and welcome, die no's are additional interest for me,

I understand that the following coins also have Die No's.... Welcome to the rabbit hole.👍

Coins that have die numbers include:

Halfpenny (1862): Die numbers are found to the left of the lighthouse on the reverse.

Penny (1863): Die numbers are below the date on the reverse.

Sixpence (1864-1879): Die numbers are just above the date on the reverse.

Shilling (1864-1879): Die numbers are just above the date on the reverse.

Florin (1864-1878): Die numbers are on the obverse near Victoria’s bust.

Half Sovereign (1863-1880): Die numbers are on the reverse under the wreath.

Sovereign (1863-1874): Die numbers are on the reverse under the wreath.
These die numbers were inscribed on coins issued by the Royal Mint for circulation in the UK and its possessions between 1863 and 1880

   

[Bronze & Copper Collector]

41 minutes ago, Citizen H said:

Hello and welcome, die no's are additional interest for me,

I understand that the following coins also have Die No's.... Welcome to the rabbit hole.👍

Coins that have die numbers include:

Halfpenny (1862): Die numbers are found to the left of the lighthouse on the reverse.

Penny (1863): Die numbers are below the date on the reverse.

Sixpence (1864-1879): Die numbers are just above the date on the reverse.

Shilling (1864-1879): Die numbers are just above the date on the reverse.

Florin (1864-1878): Die numbers are on the obverse near Victoria’s bust.

Half Sovereign (1863-1880): Die numbers are on the reverse under the wreath.

Sovereign (1863-1874): Die numbers are on the reverse under the wreath.
These die numbers were inscribed on coins issued by the Royal Mint for circulation in the UK and its possessions between 1863 and 1880

   

Minor update to this list.

Some 1862 Halfpennies have a die LETTER to the left of the lighthouse. Additionally, there exists a much rarer die letter combination with the die letter A to the right of the lighthouse.