1820 Shilling H over Horizontal H question.

[Paddy]

Welcome back @seuk. I am sorry to hear about Gary, though I did not know him. He made a wise and altruistic decision in passing on his collection intact before he passed.

Is/was the website I linked to above yours or his? Is it likely that it will ever be resurrected? It was a wonderful and powerful addition to our knowledge of counterfeit coins.

 

 

[seuk]

14 hours ago, Paddy said:

Welcome back @seuk. I am sorry to hear about Gary, though I did not know him. He made a wise and altruistic decision in passing on his collection intact before he passed.

Is/was the website I linked to above yours or his? Is it likely that it will ever be resurrected? It was a wonderful and powerful addition to our knowledge of counterfeit coins.

 

 

Yes, the Steppeulvene page was mine - It just got to expensive to continue with it. 
Gary thought that I should have it, since I worked out a useful system of separating the main groups.
I'm grateful that I got the chance to buy his collection and hope I can take the next step (which is a throughout study of the punches) later this year.

[Chris Perkins]

2 minutes ago, seuk said:

Yes, the Steppeulvene page was mine - It just got to expensive to continue with it. 
Gary thought that I should have it, since I worked out a useful system of separating the main groups.
I'm grateful that I got the chance to buy his collection and hope I can take the next step (which is a throughout study of the punches) later this year.

Do you want a new place for it? It's such a shame that the pics are not available on the internet archive. My hosting provider doesn't charge me at all for low volume websites. I have a couple of small hobby websites of my own and also host for others (e.g. my friend Steve's https://www.thefakepoundcoindatabase.co.uk).

There would be no charge of course!

[seuk]

Made a mistake in my previous post. 
Right after I got back to Denmark I send Gary a few pre-Geroge III counterfeit shillings, for which he thanked me in a mail about a week later - And that was the last time I heard from him. 
As I understand his collection or part of it will be auctioned later this year.

[seuk]

1 minute ago, Chris Perkins said:

Do you want a new place for it? It's such a shame that the pics are not available on the internet archive. My hosting provider doesn't charge me at all for low volume websites. I have a couple of small hobby websites of my own and also host for others (e.g. my friend Steve's https://www.thefakepoundcoindatabase.co.uk).

There would be no charge of course!

Well, sure - that would be great! 
I thought the Internet Archive had it all by now - but it's not of much use without pictures. 
 

[Chris Perkins]

2 minutes ago, seuk said:

Well, sure - that would be great! 
I thought the Internet Archive had it all by now - but it's not of much use without pictures. 
 

Great. Message me and we'll sort out the technicalities. 

[seuk]

On 1/18/2026 at 7:47 PM, Unwilling Numismatist said:

Certainly.

This is a fairly common contemporary counterfeit. J015o / I801r in my current system. 
It's connected to a number of other dies of various groups - it's the 7th coin in this die chain

Edited 1 hour ago by seuk

[seuk]

On 1/19/2026 at 3:05 PM, Ukstu said:

Sad news about Gary. I never met him but heard lots of good things about him. He was born in the town i reside in.

I just dug my shilling out as this post had sparked my interest. Never even noticed it before but it's got a clear overdate. 1817 over 1820. That's something i have never seen in a counterfeit coin before. 

 

Could you please upload a photo of the reverse - I don't think I have this variation. 
 

[seuk]

On 1/21/2026 at 2:44 AM, Ukstu said:

The plot thickens. Another overdate spotted in the wild. Ebay. 

1820 over 1819. 

Any sign of Seuk ? Love to know his take on these overdate forgeries it's strange yet fascinating. 

This obverse is uncommon - The only other one I've noticed is in Gary's collection. 
Do yours have the same reverse?

[Ukstu]

39 minutes ago, seuk said:

Could you please upload a photo of the reverse - I don't think I have this variation. 
 

This is the reverse. Apologies for the image it was the best i could do at the minute without natural daylight.

Edited 42 minutes ago by Ukstu

[seuk]

On 1/21/2026 at 10:57 AM, Unwilling Numismatist said:

Even thicker, I have an 1819 in this box too! 

Another somewhat crude group C die - fairly common - Here's a better example.

[Ukstu]

Here is the link to the other one i posted. It was one i spotted on ebay while looking around at other forgeries to see if i could find a die match to mine. 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/277566687748

[Unwilling Numismatist]

Thank you @seuk this has been most informative! - If you'd be interested in my poor examples, please PM me your address and I'll pop them in the post.

 

[seuk]

24 minutes ago, Ukstu said:

This is the reverse. Apologies for the image it was the best i could do at the minute without natural daylight.

Reverse seems to be identical to my J914r which I've seen with 3 different obverses - and now there's a fourth...
While corrected punches (or errors) are fairly common with counterfeit dies, a re-engraved date (or other parts of design) is rare. It may turn out to be an important coin for understanding the use of punches within the series - So, I would very much like to have a 1200 dpi scan or a clear set of photographs of both sides.