1874 penny with die number under date

[Les Thomas]

Hi guys. New to this and unsure how to start a topic.

Watching a video that explained about die numbers under the date on 1863 pennies I decided to look at some coins I had to check for die numbers. I had an 1863 penny but no die number. However on an 1874 which to me seems like a 'low tide' variety, I noticed a central die number '2' under the date. When I tried to research the 1874 penny, I found the 'H' variety for that date, but couldn't find anything about die numbers.

Is this something uncommon on an 1874? The coin I'm afraid came out of the ground and is quite green, but all the legends are clear and it is not unduly worn.

[secret santa]

This sounds unlikely. I don't believe there is such a thing as a low tide 1874 penny, and certainly no die numbers. In fact, die numbers 2-5 are only found on 1863 milled bronze pennies.

Please post a photo.

For more details on varieties of milled pennies, see my penny varieties website below.

[Les Thomas]

Apologies for the lack of photographic ability. Here is an iPad photo which is the best I could achieve.

Underneath the date absolutely central between the 8 and 7 there is what appears to be a 2

I understand that a H might appear there but this doesn't seem to be an H. It appears to be a 2 

[Les Thomas]

My very limited research of the low tide variety indicated that if the waterline was below where the left leg of Britannia disappears behind the right leg, then that was a low tide variety.

This tide line appears to be well below that point. I probably got that wrong, so forgive my ignorance if I have.

 

[Paddy]

The tide levels for all the 1874 pennies I believe are "low" compared to some later ones, so there is no variation with that. (Low and high tide varieties are of interest in the veil head Victoria and Edward VII pennies.)

I have downloaded your picture, rotated it and expanded as far as I can. I think we are going to have much better photos of the "2" to accept as that and not a damaged "H" as there are no other records of a die number in that location for an 1874 penny. The reverse on your coin appears to be Freeman H, which is the most common for an 1874H penny.

[secret santa]

Maybe in hand things are clearer but the coin appears to be in such a shocking condition that it is very hard to make any firm decisions on it. It is highly unlikely (impossible ?) that an 1874 penny will suddenly turn up after 150 years with a die number on it.

[Les Thomas]

1 hour ago, secret santa said:

Maybe in hand things are clearer but the coin appears to be in such a shocking condition that it is very hard to make any firm decisions on it. It is highly unlikely (impossible ?) that an 1874 penny will suddenly turn up after 150 years with a die number on it.

Yes, things are a little clearer in hand. The coin is not nearly as bad as it appears in the picture but there are stone marks presumably from the plough. It is my poor photography that is shocking, but this coin was dug from the ground and looking at the wear did not spend a great deal of time in circulation. I would imagine it has spent 130 of those years underground in chalk soil. I have studied it under a magnifying lamp and what I thought looked like a 2 now appears possibly to be an H which would mean the Heaton mint mark. Is there anything I can soak the penny in to break up surface verdigris as there is a small lump right on whatever this mark is? The coin has a deep green patina due to it's reaction with the ground but is in a very stable surface condition. Many thanks for taking the trouble to reply.

[copper123]

Looks like a "Scott " coin to me 

[Les Thomas]

2 hours ago, Paddy said:

The tide levels for all the 1874 pennies I believe are "low" compared to some later ones, so there is no variation with that. (Low and high tide varieties are of interest in the veil head Victoria and Edward VII pennies.)

I have downloaded your picture, rotated it and expanded as far as I can. I think we are going to have much better photos of the "2" to accept as that and not a damaged "H" as there are no other records of a die number in that location for an 1874 penny. The reverse on your coin appears to be Freeman H, which is the most common for an 1874H penny.

Thanks Paddy. I agree, I now think it is just an H. There is a lump of verdigris half on this feature and it appeared to be a 2. I am a metal detectorist so don't dig many collectable condition coins. These bronze coins sometimes come up in lovely condition with beautiful green, brown and almost black patinas depending on the chemicals that have been added to the soil over the years. Others come up in horrible condition. I have dug Roman, Edward hammered pennies, a James I sixpence and even a New England, Masachussets Pine Tree 3d in poor condition.

[Les Thomas]

4 minutes ago, copper123 said:

Looks like a "Scott " coin to me 

What does that mean?  Scott no value? 🙂

[Paddy]

"Scott" is reference to another member here who has a particular affinity with metal-detectorist coins!

As for cleaning - be very careful and don't use anything abrasive or corrosive. One technique is to soak in clean water and then put in the deep freeze. Wash off and repeat several times. With luck this will split off some of the Verdigris and crud without damaging the underlying metal.

 

[copper123]

46 minutes ago, Paddy said:

"Scott" is reference to another member here who has a particular affinity with metal-detectorist coins!

As for cleaning - be very careful and don't use anything abrasive or corrosive. One technique is to soak in clean water and then put in the deep freeze. Wash off and repeat several times. With luck this will split off some of the Verdigris and crud without damaging the underlying metal.

 

You forgot the pray to god bit LOL

[copper123]

1 hour ago, Les Thomas said:

Thanks Paddy. I agree, I now think it is just an H. There is a lump of verdigris half on this feature and it appeared to be a 2. I am a metal detectorist so don't dig many collectable condition coins. These bronze coins sometimes come up in lovely condition with beautiful green, brown and almost black patinas depending on the chemicals that have been added to the soil over the years. Others come up in horrible condition. I have dug Roman, Edward hammered pennies, a James I sixpence and even a New England, Masachussets Pine Tree 3d in poor condition.

Wonder how that got here - the mind boggles