1567 REGNA LION 6d

[Coinery 926]

Nothing particularly special, but it ended up being a freebie, so I forgive it its faults (my iPhone images are of course even more unkind, it’s actually got a reasonably nice tone) 🙂

BCW LN-1A:d2 where one die is apparently/likely N over I and reading “REGNA” 

Quite nice in that respect!

Edited August 22, 2023 by Coinery

[Coinery 926]

[Sword 1,330]

I honestly think it looks rather nice. The face details are clear and the shield is well struck. Interesting N over I which you pointed out. It certainly wouldn't have been a freebie if it wasn't for the gash at the reverse! I wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.

[Rob 3,002]

I bought the 1566 dated coin with the two different lions in the Comber sale (ex RCCB) which uses the same obverse die. Thus it is reasonable to assume that this obverse die was in use at the turn of the year and your reverse may well be the first 1567 die.

[Coinery 926]

1 hour ago, Sword said:

I honestly think it looks rather nice. The face details are clear and the shield is well struck. Interesting N over I which you pointed out. It certainly wouldn't have been a freebie if it wasn't for the gash at the reverse! I wouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Thank you, and absolutely right, never look a gift horse in the mouth.

I really must get a decent camera again…my phone is amazing with some images, but absolutely shocking for capturing surfaces and colours in coins.

[TomGoodheart 373]

Very nice. Particularly for a freebie!

[Coinery 926]

2 hours ago, Rob said:

I bought the 1566 dated coin with the two different lions in the Comber sale (ex RCCB) which uses the same obverse die. Thus it is reasonable to assume that this obverse die was in use at the turn of the year and your reverse may well be the first 1567 die.

Nice  Any pictures handy? I’m guessing it must be rev LN-a2

 

I revisited the BCW reverse die chronology. Mine has Lis 29, which suggests the later die unless, of course, they switched back to Lis 26 after Lis 29 broke, which happened in less than a month, so quite feasible? The 1567 PM Lion rev dies were apparently only in use during May and June that year, so the margins of which came first are extremely fine to say the least.

Really interesting couple of paragraphs beneath the Lion die-pairing section in BCW, which discusses it. Also in that section they propose only around 4-10 of the ‘true’ REGNA (rather than rotation anomalies) would remain in existence, so maybe not that common?

 

Edited August 23, 2023 by Coinery

[Coinery 926]

21 minutes ago, TomGoodheart said:

Very nice. Particularly for a freebie!

It’s a good feeling, I feel the same when someone drops some runner beans or beetroot around

[Rob 3,002]

42 minutes ago, Coinery said:

Nice  Any pictures handy? I’m guessing it must be rev LN-a2

 

I revisited the BCW reverse die chronology. Mine has Lis 29, which suggests the later die unless, of course, they switched back to Lis 26 after Lis 29 broke, which happened in less than a month, so quite feasible? The 1567 PM Lion rev dies were apparently only in use during May and June that year, so the margins of which came first are extremely fine to say the least.

Really interesting couple of paragraphs beneath the Lion die-pairing section in BCW, which discusses it. Also in that section they propose only around 4-10 of the ‘true’ REGNA (rather than rotation anomalies) would remain in existence, so maybe not that common?

 

I thought you'd ask for that - the original image is 551K, so had to reduce it.

There's potentially something to ponder here, namely is 29 a knackered 26? The lis are not well struck up, but overall is somewhere between 26 and 29 - say 27.5! The top lis have full arms, so are 26, but the bottom ones show some sign of degradation, but not a full 29 as yours.

Edited August 23, 2023 by Rob

[Coinery 926]

23 hours ago, Rob said:

I thought you'd ask for that - the original image is 551K, so had to reduce it.

There's potentially something to ponder here, namely is 29 a knackered 26? The lis are not well struck up, but overall is somewhere between 26 and 29 - say 27.5! The top lis have full arms, so are 26, but the bottom ones show some sign of degradation, but not a full 29 as yours.

Apologies, a lost day, yesterday!

Thanks for the image, I can’t find any other REGNA coins on the internet, so really glad to see this one.

Re 29 being a knackered 26…I don’t personally think so, the out-turned ‘shepherd-hook spurs’ on the petals of Lis 26 are very distinctive and not present on Lis 29 (1), even before it broke up (2). That’s not to say these punches couldn’t have been reworked, trimmed, tidied up, etc., to get another die out of them?

Having said all that, though, Lis 26 looks to have held out into the summer of 1567 and still retains its ’spurs’ on your coin, and remained presumably ‘distinctive’ on the 1567 dated coins (LN-d1) too?

[Coinery 926]

https://www.londoncoins.co.uk/img.php?a=165&l=2477&f=r&s=l

Just found this example of Lis 26 in 1567

Edited August 24, 2023 by Coinery

[Coinery 926]

@Rob I wonder if the 4-10 hypotheses is correct, because I’ve just spotted another surviving REGNA coin for sale (not listed as such) from the same obverse die? 

Edited September 22, 2023 by Coinery

[Rob 3,002]

Most guesses of surviving numbers are underestimated, relying to a large extent on personal experience, which is a bit hit and miss as you can't pick up everything. There is no central database of coins, so you will almost always revise numbers upwards. The only exception to this is likely to be for cases of mis-identification where one type will reduce and another increase. Patterns and proofs are a bit more quantifiable.

Additional examples from known dies can appear at any time, just as new die pairs appear on a regular basis. We only have a fraction of the story.