The Question of the Faulty Rocker Press

[Rob 3,152]

One of the subjects that has occupied my mind for a few years concerns a faulty rocker press that was most evident at Chester in 1643-4, but also appears at other locations. In all cases you have a consistent size of design on one side and a varying size on the other. This was the subject of an article I wrote in the Circular for January 2014. In the case of the CHST below halfcrowns you find that the reverse inner circle remains a consistent size, whereas the height only of the obverse inner circle is constant whilst the horizontal dimension varies considerably, the circle varying from nearly round to fairly eliptical as seen in the image below of the current Spink plate coin.

By measuring the height and width ratios of the inner circle dimensions on both sides and with reference to each other, it can be shown that there is no variation in the vertical height at the widest point, so the horizontal displacement variation has to be due to a slippage in the rocker press mechanism. If both sides of the coin appear to stretch in unison then it is not indicative of a faulty press as it could be down to the dies. The stretching is clearly seen in the relative shapes of the letter R on the obverse. The R of BR at 6 o'clock is normally formed, yet the two Rs in HIR (sic) and REX are slanted, but the same punches would have been used for all three characters.

Other halfcrown issues to show a displacement in one side of the coin relative to the other include the Chester declaration and prostrate gerb, HC and 'Welsh Marches'. This is quite useful as it is possibly the only faulty press meaning a chronology can be established. In the case of the two other Chester issues the location is not in question, however, the location of 'HC' and 'Welsh Marches' has not been positively identified. Firstly, the myth that HC is 'Hartlebury Castle' needs to be debunked as the place was no more than a large house, unable to be fortified and the 'siege' lasted for one day only in May 1646. This is fairly incompatible with the production of a siege coinage. It is also inconvenient that dies which use punches from York would be lying around for over two years. 'HC' therefore appears to be an earlier issue, and given there are coins showing the same slippage seen on the CHST below coins, suggests a timing not far removed and a location which may or may not be close by. In the case of the Welsh Marches coins, there appears to have been an attempt to eliminate the slippage because the two dies are set in a position such as to never be seen aligned, and the amount of slippage is reduced.

Discuss.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Rob

[Rob 3,152]

So, two likes but no discussion.

If you reduce the diameter of the obverse inner circle to that of roughly the smallest that I have of the various coins in the image database, you end up with the coin looking as below. There is still a small amount of slippage on the extreme right side of the obverse, but that may be due to the obverse die having a larger diameter than the reverse die. The significant reduction in width of the obverse conveys better the amount of slippage - about 10-15%.

I can show for the reasons described in the article that the obverse die must have been cut on a piece of diestock that had a larger diameter than the size of the obverse die design. This obverse die was subsequently recut to make the Chester Declaration halfcrown obverse die. I haven't been able to establish the overall size of this reverse die. I don't know what happened to the reverse die, but one favoured option to pursue is that it moved to a W/SA mint (probably Worcester) following the commission granted to Thomas Carey dated 22nd May 1644.

Edited October 2, 2017 by Rob

[Coinery 1,148]

I think you've already researched this way beyond any contribution I could make, Rob! Interesting stuff, though!

[mhcoins 95]

I remember your article in the SNC and recall a brief discussion we had at a Birmingham coin fair when i owned a Hartlebury Halfcrown, so where in your opinion would have they have been minted rather than there ?

[mhcoins 95]

I sold a Superb Welsh Marches Halfcrown last year that was found within the correct area, thus giving the locality of a possible mint there, some creditibilty. However as you said, there is no defined place as to a known mint. Isn't there a large castle (or ruins of one) there ?

[Ukstu 445]

Could HC be dare i say it , Half Crown. 

[Ukstu 445]

As Rob says hartlebury is not a castle. Its a manor. The welsh marches is littered with ruined castles. The Normans started that up and it continued for many centuries. 

Edited October 3, 2017 by Ukstu

[Rob 3,152]

2 hours ago, mhcoins said:

I remember your article in the SNC and recall a brief discussion we had at a Birmingham coin fair when i owned a Hartlebury Halfcrown, so where in your opinion would have they have been minted rather than there ?

Hawarden is my preferred choice. Hawarden is 5 miles west of Chester and was in Royalist hands for all bar a few days throughout the war. Crucially, it was also on the road from Mostyn to Chester. Mostyn was where the first contingent of Irish troops under Sir Michael Earnley disembarked around 18-20th November 1643, recapturing Hawarden from Myddleton's parliamentary force on the way to Chester. There are two other HC options in the vicinity - Holt and Halton castles, but Hawarden alone has the necessary body of troops required to justify striking a lot of halfcrowns. 2500 Irish troops couldn't be paid from petty cash, though there is no documentary evidence I am aware of to say they were definitely paid prior to the replacement of Lord Capel at Chester on the 6th December 1643 with Lord Byron. The latter did report to Charles that he had ensured that each common soldier was given food and lodgings, a new suit and half a crown. It may also be pertinent that the locals in Chester were unhappy with the arrival of so many Irish troops, so there would have been a reason to keep them outside the city.

 

The Coat of Arms of the Earldom of Cheshire was three gerbs, note the distinction from those of Chester which additionally has a sword as seen on the CHST below and declaration halfcrowns. If you look at a well struck up mark on the HC halfcrowns, they could equally be construed as three gerbs. See pic below. The punches for these appear to be the same as those used for some of the lion claws on the York reverses. The detail of the HC halfcrown is very much in the style of Thomas Rawlins, and there is some indication of a possible TR monogram signature on the York halfcrowns which are after all a 'Briot' style, though as Briot's understudy, this could equally apply to Rawlins. If you consider the rendering of the horse's mane on the type 6 & 7 halfcrowns at York, they are essentially the same as the HC horse's mane, so I would say it is odds on the same engraver. If you compare them with the York 1C halfcrown for examlpe, they are like chalk and cheese.

As I think Rawlins was at York until the autumn of 1643, and the troops arrived from Ireland in the November, this planned in advance, there would be ample time for Rawlins to make the journey down to Chester. As I noted in my article, there appears to be the trace of a lion with three holes for the eyes and mouth and a leg under the O of CAROLVS. If this is just a coincidental flaw, it would be unfortunate, but I don't think it is. Additionally, if it was recut from a York die, there is no way it would be unused for over 2 years. What I am absolutely convinced about however, is that Hartlebury is a non-starter, being the Bishop's residence and essentially unfortifiable. And the 'siege' lasted one day.

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by Rob

[Rob 3,152]

4 hours ago, mhcoins said:

I sold a Superb Welsh Marches Halfcrown last year that was found within the correct area, thus giving the locality of a possible mint there, some creditibilty. However as you said, there is no defined place as to a known mint. Isn't there a large castle (or ruins of one) there ?

Welsh Marches is highly likely to be Hereford in my opinion.

Cast your mind back to the 5th February 1643/4 when Rupert was made President of Wales. That gave him overall control of all Royalist activities in Wales and the Welsh Marches, i.e. Chester through to Chepstow and all places west thereof. When the 1644 declaration die was made at Chester, the reverse mark used is an abnormally large plume, though the obverse retains the three gerbs and a sword signifying Chester. The same style plume is also seen on the unite. A further use of the large plume is on the Welsh Marches 2/6d, albeit very crudely engraved. I'm sure that Rupert took the Oxford 1643 reverse 23 die to Chester either on his visit following his appointment when he met Lord Byron on 10th March (but left on the 11th to relieve Newark), or on 16th May when he visited before the York March. I favour the former as it is quite conceivable that the die was brought to pay the accompanying troops in March, but as they were ordered to leave the following day there was no time to cut the die. Had that die remained at Oxford until May I feel certain it would have been recycled given the enormous output in conjunction with the Oxford Parliament which sat from the 22nd January 1643/4 until it was proprogued on the 22nd April 1644. They made 3 dozen or more dies in that period to cope with the large influx of personnel.

After the York March Rupert returned to Chester, arriving on the 25th July with a view to recruiting further troops from the Welsh Marches to replace those lost at Marston Moor. Enjoying little success, he left on the 20th August for Bristol which he reached a few days later. As commander of the troops now both in Bristol and Wales etc, he would also have responsibility for mint operations. The Welsh Marches halfcrown has a Bristol style declaration, so the engraver was certainly familiar with the peculiarities of the mint. Both Bristol and Hereford came under Rupert's control, so I believe that they were struck at the time noted by Besly who records a lost document detailing how 'Rude the Coyner' struck coins from 277 ounces of plate in October-November 1644. This timing matches exactly the return from Pembrokeshire of Gerard's 3000+ troops following the shutdown of hostilities for the winter. He arrived back in England in early October, eventually wintering over in Monmouth and the surrounding area. The most direct line he could take would have been through Carmarthen, up the Towy valley and around the edge of the Brecon Beacons to Hereford. The presence of a few thousand newly arrived troops and a man making coins cannot be a coincidence. There will have been an unquantifiably larger number of coins struck than the less than 600 halfcrowns possible from the 277 ounces, but its value lies in establishing mint activities at a place and point in time.

Prince Rupert ceased to hold the title President of Wales following transfer of the Welsh and Marches troops to Prince Maurice commencing the 1st December 1644 when he set up his headquarters at Worcester. I therefore believe the WM coins to have been struck within the 10 month timeframe available and that location was Hereford.

Another point to consider is that the nobles provided and paid for their troops and other staff. It is therefore possible that 'Rude' is in fact 'Ruud'; a foreigner from the Low Countries that was employed by Rupert on his home turf. Punches and other tooling could have been imported with him, meaning a spot of difficulty in matching them to dies made previously.

[mhcoins 95]

This is the example i mentioned, still with the mud from the welsh marches intact. 

[Rob 3,152]

Here is both sides, cleaned up a little. Super portrait of the king.

Edited October 4, 2017 by Rob

[mhcoins 95]

That photo was taken by me ... small world, I guess it's new owner has shared you the images 

[Rob 3,152]

Yep

[Rob 3,152]

I spent a day at Hawarden (Flintshire) Record Office last week, trying to dig up some info about the workings of Hawarden in 1643 and a possible link to the HC half crowns, but wasn't particularly successful.

All I gleaned from the visit was a letter from Lord Capell at Chester to Sir William Neale who was in charge of Hawarden Castle to house the troops at the castle and in and around the village, such that they could be assembled in Chester at no more than a day's notice. At least this positively places the Irish troops at Hawarden between the 3rd and the 6th December 1643 because Capell was replaced at Chester by Lord Byron effective from the 6th, and Hawarden Castle was only recaptured from Parliament on the 3rd. The castle had earlier been commanded by Ravenscroft, who surrendered it previously on the 22nd November.

No mention of any provision for paying them however.

 

[Coinery 1,148]

The material would make for a fabulous historical novel, though, even if it doesn't reveal the leads you're looking for!

[Rob 3,152]

1 hour ago, Coinery said:

The material would make for a fabulous historical novel, though, even if it doesn't reveal the leads you're looking for!

The problem is that there is precious little material to work with. I guess the situation was so fluid that much was done by word of mouth, and anything written down could be captured and troops intercepted.

There was a series of letters to the Commissioners of Array to provide Charles with ammunition sent to Chester 24th Sept 1642, Shrewsbury 29th Sept and Hawarden and Flint on 4th October.

The full series of letters to and fro between Michael Earnely et al and the Parliamentary garrison at Hawarden showing how the surrender negotiations progressed over the period 22nd November to the 3rd December are held in the office.

Various records of donations to the Royalists. There is also a note that £100 was payable to Col. Marrow for armies and ammunition out of the money received or to be received from the loan money of Denbigh and Flint and used by Sir William Neale for the victualising and furnishing of Hawarden Castle. Unfortunately this is not dated, but in any case has to be after the 3 day window shown earlier because there was insufficient time to arrange matters. It could even be as late as the following Spring prior to the York March, as Col. Marrow was killed on 21st August at Tarvin in Cheshire. He was a good commander and a serious loss to the Royalists.

The Mostyn papers have an undated note of Royalist horses sent to Bangor, presumably late in the war following the fall of Chester. (Possible 'B' mint location(?), along with Beaumaris and Raglan).

There are also notes to the effect that Chester was provided with money and ammunition in the months prior to its surrender.

Apart from that it is mostly letters of social history interest. Need to revisit the Chester Office.

[Coinery 1,148]

Rob, you love research and writing as much as I do!

It's still my greatest desire to live the life and be acknowledged as a poet! An Emily Bronte or even a Julia Donaldson would do me nicely.

I'm on it! I have now established a sustainable existence, that by 2018 will free me, with only myself to blame should I fail! Very happy with that position! ?

[Rob 3,152]

Penny or rather shilling has dropped.

Letter from Prince Rupert to Sir William Neale, commander of the Hawarden garrison from 3rd December 1643 to the end of the war, saying £100 for the provision of armies and ammunition for Col. Marrow (died 21st August 1644) and the victualising and furnishing of Hawarden Castle gives an inadvertent bonus. Although it doesn't specifically state that coins were struck at Hawarden, it certainly makes it a centre for the receipt of funds, be they cash or plate, and where the plate goes, the dies will follow. Allen shilling obv. B has a bird as the obverse mark. If the bird shillings were struck in conjunction with the instructions outlined in the letter, it likely limits the dates to 3rd Dec. 1643 - 13th March 1643/4, end of March - 15th May 1644 or 25th July to 20th August 1644. The first period would be in line with refurbishing the castle following its recapture, the second covers a period when Rupert was in Oxford, and so is the least likely, whilst the last period saw Rupert camped on the Welsh side of the Dee at Chester (so 4 miles from Hawarden), and actively recruiting at this point to replace the troops lost at Marston Moor. Outside these dates either Neale or Rupert or both were otherwise occupied elsewhere.

A happy coincidence is that the arms of Flintshire are a cross with a bird in each angle. Given the use of the leopard head (Shropshire & Shrewsbury), gerb (Cheshire & Chester), tower (Worcester) and pear/pears (if the HC is a Worcester(shire) location), then it is a logical fit that the bird should represent Flintshire. Options are likely Hawarden, Flint, Mold, Rhuddlan or one of the ports used for landing troops, but Hawarden is closest to Chester where we know there was a rocker press available. The shilling is paired with 3 marked reverses - rev. 6 Boar's Head, rev. 7 Scroll(?), this mark is uncertain and rev. 8 lis. Trouble is that there may be no more than half a dozen examples of obverse B across all marks, making hard work establishing a chronology for the pairs.  

It makes sense in terms of timing, as Rupert was trying to raise troops from the area in July/August 1644 after his return from York and the boar's head appears on a reverse paired with the early halfcrown obv.I and the second reverse on the sixpence which post-dates the tower both sides die pair, which I believe were struck before the end of the first week of July 1644. It also leaves open the possibility that the lion used as a reverse mark on a couple of shillings and a half-crown reverse is significant, as is the boar's head mark seen on a few reverses. Denbighshire(?) for the first, or maybe the mark of Edward, Lord Herbert, who was granted a commission on 29th July 1644 to strike denominations current in the realm at an unspecified location (though almost certainly given in conjunction with his commission to raise 10000 troops from the Irish Confederates. The family arms bear three rampant lions on a halved blue and red spade shield. Similarly, the arms of Radnor have a boar's head in each quarter, though the possibility of a North Wales coat of arms hasn't been excluded. All this does nothing to show the HC halfcrown was struck at Hawarden, but at least it moves the shilling question forwards. The real bonus would be the creation of another box to fill.

I can feel a trip to both Ruthin and Llandrindod Wells record offices coming on.

[Coinery 1,148]

I read all of that! Always seems so unsatisfactory to reply without anything to add. Hopefully enough, though, to say great and incredibly interesting work! 

[Rob 3,152]

It also throws up a bit of a spanner in the works. Much is made of the Cary commission as a means of explaining the location of these uncertain mint coins. However, the commission covered the 4 English border counties from Hereford north to Cheshire - Flintshire or any Welsh county would be outside the remit, yet the same engravers are used. Chester was striking prior to the 22nd May 1644, and there is a good case to be made for the SA marked die also pre-dating this. In a nutshell, although it is possible to place some coins in the appropriate timeframe, I can't actually find any evidence that the Cary commission was ever acted on, the coining seemingly being a case of as you were, wherever and whenever depending on which engraver was travelling with which army group or attached to a particular garrison. The awarding of a commission does not necessarily mean that it was enacted, just that the legal right was given.

Fundamental to this argument is the absence of any identifiable initial mark. Bushell, when he obtained the right to strike at Aberystwyth, took the open book as his mark. I believe that virtually all of the marks can be explained - the county signatures copled with the engraver marks of 3 pellets, 4 pellets, rose, lis, helmet, tower etc leaving only the uninspiring 2 pellets or scroll(?) together with what is off flan as potential identifiers. It's not very convincing as a mark.

Answer one question and you generate 2 more.

 

Edited November 23, 2017 by Rob

[mhcoins 95]

Just been revisiting the above thread, @Rob are there any SNC or BNJ articles on the Welsh Marches Halfcrowns that you are aware of  ?

[Rob 3,152]

They were considered forgeries until Besly decided they were a genuine issue and published as such in his 1990 book. I can't find any articles that refer to them.

Without any proof either way, they were never going to be high on the list of research topics. The design appeared to be too crude to be genuine to early researchers and so languished alongside the reversed Cs mintmark halfcrown, or other contemporary copies, of which there were many for the 2/6 and 1/- denominations. Even now it is only conjecture supported by circumstantial evidence only that they are legitimate. The quality of the engraving is poor, particularly the legend, but then some of the W/SA coins leave a bit to be desired. I think this is a function of making composite letters from a variety of smaller punches. The fact they are struck in silver of the correct fineness is a plus. In my view the arrival at Hereford of Gerard and 3000 men from south west Wales in early October 1644 ties in well with Besly's reference to a Rude the Coyner striking halfcrowns at Hereford on 17th of that month. The Bristol declaration is not an issue because on this date, Rupert was commanding the Royalist forces at Bristol, but was still President of Wales (until 30th Nov) and so in overall charge of the Marches and Wales. The use of a Bristol moneyer would therefore be not unsurprising in my view. It does seem reasonable to concur with Besly on this matter, but as for an article, this paragraph would need to be bulked out a lot to compose even one page.

[mhcoins 95]

Thank you Rob

We have one ourselves and we have been trying to put together some kind of historical background however as you mentioned there seems to be minimal referances to them (in anywhere we have looked) in any earlier publication. The fact that there are now 13 known, this imo would rule out them being a contempary forgeries. Bull lists the provenances of 12 of the known examples (this was recorded prior to the discovery of the one pictured earlier in the thread) and with examples being traced back to the likes of Rostrum, Cumberland Clark and Montagu.

[Rob 3,152]

I think it is now generally accepted they are genuine, but the location of the mint is the one uncertainty. The combination of a large plume mintmark would be in keeping with the Chester declaration reverse and the Chester unite, which would have been struck around the time of or shortly after the closure of the Oxford parliament in April 1644. The President of Wales had a large plume as his emblem. We know that Rupert left Chester on 20th August 1644 and arrived at Bristol on the 26th, so if the coins were ordered to be struck by Rupert in his capacity as President of Wales, any Bristol related detail such as the declaration should post-date the 26th Aug with a terminal date of 30th November. This is why the documented coining at Hereford in Oct 1644, the arrival of Gerard at Hereford in the same month and the over-wintering of his troops in the Hereford and Monmouth areas is so compelling an explanation. However, it doesn't exclude the possibility that the coins were struck at a few locations over the surrounding area given they were dispersed for the winter months. Yours was found at Goodrich(?), where the castle would be a logical billeting point.

[mhcoins 95]

I no longer have the one that was discovered in the welsh marches area but have obtained a different one 

 

thanks you again for the useful comments, i’ll Try to use what info I have and piece something together possibly quoting some of your opinions if that’s ok ?