TICKET CENTRAL

[Coinery]

On 11/18/2023 at 9:53 AM, Coinery said:

Quick question: what does RCB refer to from the 40s?

Also, a useful document, that I’m sure you’ve all seen before, so forgive me, I’m simply sharing it here to log it for myself

https://www.britnumsoc.org/images/BIOGRAPHIES/6_Coin_Tikts/Coin-Tickets-Main-List-008.pdf

Ahh, just bumped into a little issue with the attached document…it isn’t all of the entrants that have dates!

Any thoughts on where Owen sits in the timeframe?

Edited December 2, 2023 by Coinery

[TomGoodheart]

Tim Owen is still dealing. I messaged him the other day and he said he largely sells to other dealers at coin fairs. So he may have sold to Steve Hill who then passed it on to CC, but hard to tell if there are no clues on the tickets.

Tim's tickets seem to come up fairly frequently and generally on decent pieces. Again, Rob is likely to know how long he's been dealing. More than 20 years at least, surely.

Oh, and Gary has updated the article. This (I believe) is the latest (#11) Additional Coin Tickets Version 11

[Coinery]

29 minutes ago, TomGoodheart said:

Tim Owen is still dealing. I messaged him the other day and he said he largely sells to other dealers at coin fairs. So he may have sold to Steve Hill who then passed it on to CC, but hard to tell if there are no clues on the tickets.

Tim's tickets seem to come up fairly frequently and generally on decent pieces. Again, Rob is likely to know how long he's been dealing. More than 20 years at least, surely.

Oh, and Gary has updated the article. This (I believe) is the latest (#11) Additional Coin Tickets Version 11

Superb, many thanks again, and great re the updated document

I think you’d be right about the supply scenario…I believe Tim’s name comes up as provenance, presumably on the back of SH’s ticket? 

[Coinery]

I don’t suppose any of these tickets leap out at anyone for provenance do they?

[Rob]

Anything on the other side of the Seaby ticket? No IIIds of Newcastle in either 63 or 64. One IIIe in January 1963 and a whole raft of Edward pennies in April 64, but not one was a Newcastle. There were only a handful of Ed.1 pennies listed in the whole of 1963, so suspect these were too common a type to bother with.

They made a good profit on it.

Edited June 15, 2024 by Rob

[Coinery]

1 hour ago, Rob said:

Anything on the other side of the Seaby ticket? No IIIds of Newcastle in either 63 or 64. One IIIe in January 1963 and a whole raft of Edward pennies in April 64, but not one was a Newcastle. There were only a handful of Ed.1 pennies listed in the whole of 1963, so suspect these were too common a type to bother with.

They made a good profit on it.

Thanks, Rob. I’ve not had a chance to fully study the coin itself, it was a quick ‘must-have’ buy.

A brief look at the reverse legend of the coin suggests it’s actually a 3E, so could perhaps allude to the ‘63 sale? 
The only ticket with anything on the reverse is the bottom one in the images. The Seaby ticket is the top right, then, I’m guessing?

[Coinery]

So, just had a better look and only just put it all together…all the class 3 Newcastle coins are Es, and all the features of the obverse in combination with the full reverse legend corroborates this.

So are we thinking then that this is the 3E from the ‘63 sale? Does it say anything else or suggest a collection?

Much appreciated, Rob, as always

 

Edited June 15, 2024 by Coinery

[Rob]

It's the only candidate listed in 1963, but with the number of listings counted on your fingers and in one month only, I would find it hard to believe that they had no more Ed.1 pennies for a whole year. Also, the IIIe was listed at 15/-, so either it didn't sell and was repriced at a later date, or it's a different coin. But it wasn't in the April 64 list which was quite extensive, and the other thing not in its favour is that a purchase date in 1963 doesn't leave much time to include it in the January list prior to printing.

[Coinery]

28 minutes ago, Rob said:

It's the only candidate listed in 1963, but with the number of listings counted on your fingers and in one month only, I would find it hard to believe that they had no more Ed.1 pennies for a whole year. Also, the IIIe was listed at 15/-, so either it didn't sell and was repriced at a later date, or it's a different coin. But it wasn't in the April 64 list which was quite extensive, and the other thing not in its favour is that a purchase date in 1963 doesn't leave much time to include it in the January list prior to printing.

Ah, OK, thanks Rob, thought we were getting somewhere then…a big ask I guess when considering the sheer volume of the series.

Nice coin though  

[JohnConduitt]

Hi - I have a question from an experienced collector who is 'awaiting approval' to join but would like to hear from the very knowledgeable collectors of British coins here. I hope you can help!
Thank you very much

 …………………………………….

Hello all,

I have come to an impasse while researching the below ticket and I am hoping that someone here can help.

I am fairly sure that this is a Spink ticket. The coin that goes with the ticket came from the collection of George Muller, who was Director of Ancient Coins at Spink from the 50s to the 80s. 

However, I think the ticket predates Muller. The reverse says “SPK 1941” so I think the coin may have sold in one of the notoriously hard to find numismatic circulars from the 40s. I think the ticket may be in the handwriting of Leonard Forrer who ran Spink’s ancient department before Muller. I was only able to find one instance of a Forrer ticket for comparison though so that is a tentative attribution.

I have seen other Spink tickets from the 40s that include numbers (such as 17/6 for example) that may be related to the “T 11/3” written on the back. I don’t understand what this may signify, however.


Can anyone here help add any information to my search? Is this a Spink ticket? Can it be assigned to a collector or a sale? Is this in the hand of Leonard Forrer? Does anyone know how to decode any of the abbreviations, writing or markings?

Thanks to all in advance for the help.

[Rob]

44 minutes ago, JohnConduitt said:

Hi - I have a question from an experienced collector who is 'awaiting approval' to join but would like to hear from the very knowledgeable collectors of British coins here. I hope you can help!
Thank you very much

 …………………………………….

Hello all,

I have come to an impasse while researching the below ticket and I am hoping that someone here can help.

I am fairly sure that this is a Spink ticket. The coin that goes with the ticket came from the collection of George Muller, who was Director of Ancient Coins at Spink from the 50s to the 80s. 

However, I think the ticket predates Muller. The reverse says “SPK 1941” so I think the coin may have sold in one of the notoriously hard to find numismatic circulars from the 40s. I think the ticket may be in the handwriting of Leonard Forrer who ran Spink’s ancient department before Muller. I was only able to find one instance of a Forrer ticket for comparison though so that is a tentative attribution.

I have seen other Spink tickets from the 40s that include numbers (such as 17/6 for example) that may be related to the “T 11/3” written on the back. I don’t understand what this may signify, however.


Can anyone here help add any information to my search? Is this a Spink ticket? Can it be assigned to a collector or a sale? Is this in the hand of Leonard Forrer? Does anyone know how to decode any of the abbreviations, writing or markings?

Thanks to all in advance for the help.

Can't help with the 1941 circular. I would assume the ticket is by the person who bought the coin from Spink in 1941 with his price code. Spink stock numbers at the time were numerically incrementing and carried over from year to year, so 1943 for example had stock numbers in the 17000 range and more likely to be recorded on a Spink ticket. IMO the SPK would be superfluous if it's a Spink ticket and would expect the selling price to be given. Codes are usually used for purchase cost.

Below 277-239 could read AR 4 DCS? Silver Tetradrachm? Then Cat(alogue) Jourdan 1009? Searching Jourdan brings up CNG's Richard A Jourdan sale in 2020 and appropriate material, but nothing as described on the ticket. Presumably a different Jourdan sale or is Jourdan an old reference book? I'm not familiar with ancients collections past sales, so can't help with catalogues or names.

[david.bordeaux]

Not Jourdan but Jameson? - Collection R. Jameson Tome 1

 

[JohnConduitt]

Thank you for your responses. I have a reply, but I'm now getting a "403 Forbidden" error, hence the madness below 😁

Edited August 24, 2024 by JohnConduitt

[JohnConduitt]

[JohnConduitt]

[JohnConduitt]

2 hours ago, david.bordeaux said:

Not Jourdan but Jameson? - Collection R. Jameson Tome 1

Excellent suggestion and great researching that reference. Unfortunately it is not the correct type. The coin in question is the Poseidon / Ship tetradrachm. See below for the coin in question.

[JohnConduitt]

[JohnConduitt]

Thank you,
Curtis

P.S. I would love to join the forum myself and communicate directly with all of you, but my account registration has not received an approval. Perhaps someone here could put in a good word for me to the admins. As I’ll not be able to thank you all directly for your replies, please know that I am reading them and I appreciate them. Many thanks to John for assisting me with asking this question.

[Rob]

Regarding David's post, I could go with Jameson too. You often see important sales of a similar coin referenced on tickets, but that doesn't always mean it was from that collection. Just look at the references of many lots in current sales to see things such as Brooker xxx same dies for Charles I, Adams for pennies, Schneider for hammered gold etc. The collection referenced is usually one of the major sales for the material in question. Unfortunately however, sometimes these get incorporated into the provenance of a sale lot, leading to ongoing confusion when checking and confirming a provenance. I got caught out recently on that very point. Mea culpa for not checking thoroughly in advance. Note that Jameson died in 1942 and the collection was sold post mortem, but the ticket says SPK 1941, i.e. it predates this.

PTO means please turn over.

TPP is T/-/- and looks to be a purchase price code in pounds shillings and pence. i.e T represents a number of pounds and the dashes zero shillings and pence.

I'd say they are by a different hand. Although the M is similar, the P is completely different. The R is a bit misleading as it is a conjugated A&R (for silver) on the ticket in question. The lack of sale price would imply a coin sold before being priced and on the list and so a Spink ticket cannot be ruled out, but I don't think it is. The other ticket references the Sydenham sale at Glens in Dec. 1941, but I don't have this catalogue, nor the Nov. 1948 sale to check who bought what.

Send Chris Perkins a PM to get approved. He doesn't pop by that often.

Edited August 24, 2024 by Rob

[david.bordeaux]

1 hour ago, JohnConduitt said:

Jameson 1004 to 1008 are all Poseidon, so maybe a misreading or misattribution?

 

[TomGoodheart]

Not sure this is quite the right place, although tickets are involved! I just wondered if any of the members remember William Whelan? Dealer based in central London, I suspect 1980s - 2010ish (his premises have been an Italian restaurant since 2014). 



Nice envelope. And two tickets, though I have no idea whether either is in Mr Whelan's hand or were from when he picked up the items they describe.

Anyone able to help please? Thanks!

[Rob]

VAT 10% will narrow down the date range a bit. Phone numbers changed from 01 to 071 & 081 in 1990ish? He was a regular buyer at auction based on the names noted against lots in catalogues. The middle one might be his.

The number 41 (and 40) might be a case of the previous collector tying the tickets to a coin in their collection database. I have a 2x2 box full of tickets that don't fit the tray recesses, all neatly numbered with their numerical collection reference so they can be reconnected come the time for disposal. 

[TomGoodheart]

Ah, yes. The 40, 41 stickers are my way of linking oversized tickets or envelopes too. I should have said! And thanks Rob.

[Sleepy]

William Whelan is listed in the 1976 Coin Year Book same address but a different telephone number

[TomGoodheart]

5 hours ago, Sleepy said:

William Whelan is listed in the 1976 Coin Year Book same address but a different telephone number

Thanks. 👍