Proof Sixpence

[crow1]

Good evening all

I purchased this sixpence recently listed as a proof coin, when in hand I was surprised how much of a cameo finish the coin has. I would appreciate thoughts on the coin, is it an early strike which gives it the sharp frosted cameo ?

Many thanks

[Nick]

Cameo effect comes from the recessed portion of the die (the portrait and devices) being treated with acid to dullen the shiny surface, whereas the flat portion of the die (the field) is highly polished (as are the blanks).  When a cameo die is used, I assume (but don't know for sure) that over time the die gradually loses its highly polished nature and the result is a lessening of the cameo effect.

Looks like you have a lovely specimen (assuming the reverse is as good).

[crow1]

Thanks Nick, very informative. Reverse pic attached

[Nick]

Very nice.  Proofs are not the easiest things to photograph.

[crow1]

I am no David Bailey that's a fact !

[crow1]

My first attempt seemed to give George an Elvis like appearance, must invest in a new camera !!

[VickySilver]

Nick is spot on; to clarify, the dies are "pickled" by acid exposure after devices and lettering are engraved & as these are recessed they are protected from the polish applied to the higher field surfaces on the die & with progressive strikes the cameo effect is progressively lost.

As copper-nickel is harder, the 0.500 coins such as the OP tend to wear a bit faster than earlier .925 bits & then the later 1950, '51, '53 issues that have no silver are even harder so with the passage of time (perhaps not such precise mint work on dies??), the cameo effect is lost earlier and earlier - if that makes sense.

 

An interesting bit is how one separates VIP proof strikes from the deeper cameo ordinary strikes, as they are supposedly worth a substantial premium. In short, I have collected 20th C. proofs for many years and am not always certain of the difference. In hand, I THINK that I can tell the difference but there are certainly some borderline coins. This problem is analogous to that with the Victorian currency vs. Maundy threepences...

[copper123]

mmmm nice sixpence - its been looked after that one

[crow1]

Very interesting Vickysilver, i have not owned a VIP proof or seen one in hand so have very little knowledge in the area i am afraid. I note that a few examples graded as deep cameo have recently been changed or upgraded to VIP proof strikes. PCGS seem to grade as cameo, deep cameo and VIP proof.

[crow1]

I also acquired a crown and half crown of very similar quality from the same seller. Possibly the same proof set, i don't know.

[PWA 1967]

They are nice coins Crow.

As you mention chances are part of the fifteen coin set.

I only collect pennies so probably as always pay a bit over for the one i want.

The full set you can pick up for £300/£400 so hope if the couple you bought are what you wanted and sensible money , your happy.

[crow1]

I liked them and paid far too much for them as usual !! put them away for twenty years and i might break even :-)

[crow1]

I have the penny also, i will dig out a picture if you want a look

[PWA 1967]

Crow a full set should always work out cheaper than buying them individually , thats why ebay is full of them.

What i meant is some collectors will pay a bit over the odds for the one they want as not bothered about the rest.

[crow1]

I see what you mean. If i like a coin, i don't mind paying a premium, if your a collect-a-holic not a dealer its not so important is it.

[PWA 1967]

12 minutes ago, crow1 said:

I see what you mean. If i like a coin, i don't mind paying a premium, if your a collect-a-holic not a dealer its not so important is it.

Crow ....we are all collect-a-holic on here...its part of being on the forum 

[crow1]

Excellent, i am in good company then

[copper123]

MORE PICS PLEASE!!!

[crow1]

I would be interested in the penny collectors thoughts on this 1882 penny. It was dressed in an old ANACS slab. I stripped it naked to look at the tones closer. It was graded at MS62 does anyone think she has been messed with or is the tone genuine ??

[VickySilver]

Nice bit there! You look to have good taste; I always think it right to pay just that little bit extra for an attractive piece. As to the original topic, I recently bought a PCGS65CAM[eo] 1937 crown even though I had an under graded "64" because it was just that little bit better that I liked.

 

As to  the '82H: I don't think it's been messed with other than possibly being dipped in something similar to the "MS70" copper dip which leaves coins with a bit of a bluey/purple tone. One of the proof copper 1860 farthings has been treated in this way....

[crow1]

Thanks again Vickysilver, you have to try and improve your collection if you can, I also find when you trade up and resale that you can ask a little more if your selling quality coins so it evens out, well that's the plan anyway!

That is interesting regarding the 82, as I have only seen this extreme blue/purple tone on one other coin I owned a few years back and someone suggested it may have been dipped years before which may have produced the resulting tones. Its a handsome coin in hand, very reflective, its not been polished so would the Copper dip also produce a reflective field  ?

[VickySilver]

No that is the strike, not the dip.There is a bit of ?friction on Britannia's bust - or is that just variable toning...

BTW, if the price was right it is indeed a handsome coin.

[crow1]

I just looked again with loupe and it appears to be different toning not wear,  I picked this one up for next to nothing as the old slab was very scratched and worn and different show her real eye appeal. Very happy when I freed her from her tomb.

[VickySilver]

Excellent! Very nice to have finds that are good buys and with eye appeal. I sometimes get extra coins of dates or varieties I already have because I like the individual coin!

[crow1]

Has to be done my friend, I tend to buy two or three then keep the best and sell of the others. I just picked up a PF65CAM 1937 crown at the Heritage auctions over in the USA. I bought it to compare with the raw one and keep the better of the two. I bid on about twenty coins and some of the prices were rather high ! I missed a couple of nice proof uk pennies I really liked, they were bid up to between 2-3k dollars unfortunately with a bad exchange rate at present plus fees they were above what I had wanted to pay. Also some purchases from the US attract import tax, I am questioning this with the revenue at the moment hoping they will clarify the law regarding different coins.