Prax

The new thread is called Markets

Too many people have asked me about the slender 3 and why I exited the market only to re-enter a few years later. Here's my story between 2003 and 2011. Collecting coins was always a hobby of mine. But only in 2003, after moving to Cardiff, did I take it seriously. I used to buy silver and gold coins in bulk from scrap traders and jewelers only to separate the half decent coins and sell the rest on as scrap. This way I began to build a decent collection by only paying slightly over bullion value for coins. Slowly by 2004 I started to buy non bullion coins as well. Within a year I acquired a few very rare pennies, including an UNC 1903 open 3; and became more interested in pennies. In those days the demand for pennies was stratospheric (I am of the opinion that the market for coins is subdued at the mo). On ebay you had people like C Morgan, Tony C, L Bamford, M Platt, C Davies, G Schindler, F Fiona etc who'd snap anything of interest and the selling price for pennies in auction-houses wwas pretty steep too. If you recall in 2003 a decent sovereign was selling for £45 - 60, yet at the same time a cleaned 1875 H specimen penny from the Adams sale was going for about £960 (https://spink.com/lot-description.aspx?id=3011262). I still retain this coin (The same coin will perhaps sell for around £1500 today but a sov is selling for around £200). So I decided to sell my pennies and invest in silver. By 2009 a mate and I had about 300 kgs in silver and we started a refining business in Birmingham producing 990 silver for big names to put their stamp on. By 2012 the metals market nosedived and I exited the business after taking a 30% cut on my investment. However rather than taking my share as cash, I took just over 90 kgs in pre 1920s silver. Again I sold all the 1911-9 coins and damaged coins for scrap and I still retain over 30 kgs of at least clear date pre 1911 silver, which have not been checked for variants. I have stocked this in an bank vault and I intend to use this for my retirement project. Must be fun sorting through each coin using an ESC book, some of which are from the mid 1600s. Since 2013 I have returned to pennies and have started rebuilding. Coming to your other question 19k was pretty good but considering the demand at that time I'd say it wasn't unexpected. I had a cash offer of 13k for the slender 3 and 5k for my 1903 open 3. I gave the coin to LCA on the condition that I would take 13k+ (after commission) or not pay the commission if the coin did not sell. The die number 5 penny, which sold a year prior, went for more than the slender 3. The pattern 1933 sold for over 30k during the same time. The market then was very buoyant. In my opinion (adjusted for inflation) collectibles' prices are low at the moment. Property is on the up (but I believe it might have peaked) and this is precisely why I created a tread called markets in the "everything goes" section

US TPG companies don't bother about verdigris or carbon spots. That said carbon spots are not taken seriously by CGS either. Carbon spots do not harm the coin they just diminish the eye appeal. Verdigris on the other hand is a problem that can harm the coin and US TPGs will ignore it until recently. Lately PCGS and NGC (if I am not mistaken) have offered the option to conserve coins that they have graded. http://news.coinupdate.com/pcgs-adds-new-and-simpler-services-raises-fees-1733/ This means they now acknowledge verdigris as being a nuisance and will have it removed for a fee. However they state clearly that they will only do this to coins that can be conserved and not to coins that are beyond help. I did speak to NGC as well and they did not seem to think verdigis was a serious problem. I know of many CGS coins that have had verdigris and have still been graded. The 1863 slender 3 that I sold had enough verdigris on it to be classed corroded. Look around the A of Victoria and the N of Penny. http://www.londoncoins.co.uk/?page=Pastresults&auc=126&searchlot=1643&searchtype=2 The fact that you are not able to search by UIN is worrying. Would you kindly send an example please with pictures of the slab and coin if possible and I will investigate it for you by speaking to my contacts in NGC and PCGS.

Indeed upside down reverse. I have seen 2 F762s and both had upside down reverses. Have you come across any specimens with a normal reverse alignment?

It's not on the coin anymore. More of an optical illusion.

Some of you know me as a Penny collector (Nut), however among other things I do like to travel a bit, read ancient scriptures and regularly explore the hidden depths of my spirituality. I also follow the bullion and currency markets (though I don't indulge in any financial speculation put simply I don't gamble). Through this forum I have come across some very switched-on blokes and I thought we should have something going about the markets. I am keen to get something going about the property market. 3 major economies (China, Canada and Australia) are on the verge of a property bubble pop, all major stock markets are bleeding and OPEC forecasts flat oil prices for the foreseeable future. So back to my question what's your gut feeling about the UK property market and the collectibles market? Your 2p's worth please!

Missed the Spink USA auction yesterday. Some really good pennies there went for peanuts and most sold to a room bidder. Looks like Atlas Numismatics made another killing. 1874 H - UNC - £80 1870 - UNC - £200 1869 - XF - ? 1868 - XF - ? 1918H - XF - ? and a few more

Umm legal tender, neither legal nor tender in my opinion.

Latest addition F762 - ex Spink https://www.spink.com/lot-description.aspx?id=15006000519 Swapped for a 1865/3 1D in UNC + 1863 1D PCGS MS 64 RB

http://tinypic.com/r/30johl2/9 http://tinypic.com/r/2zs6tm8/9 Really low grade specimen. I am yet to locate my 5+D (ONF) Penny

They give you just a selection of the recently completed lots if you don't logon. However if you know the lot number and auction number you can build their URL without much difficulty

Yes indeed. Here's the Spink link https://www.spink.com/lot-description.aspx?id=15006000537

Well done Pete. Have you considered starting a website?

Acquired this week Swapped for a UNC 1876 h wide date, PCGS 1873 MS 65 RB and a PCGS 1866 65 RB Provenance : Spink Sep 2015 10056 Lot 537 (around £1200 with premium) and ex Ashman (?)

I am going to send your wife flowers, a bottle of Prosecco and a Dirty Dancing DVD to persuade her into dragging you to Spain during the first week in March. Far too much competition for the next LCA

I can't seem to want to use past tense there. Can imagine how difficult it ought to have been for Peter!!! Jerry, I am in the City these days. I remember how I used to flock to Newport every first Monday of the month - me and a bloke called Paul Long from Jacob's Gallery on Canal Wharf. Paul used to be into hammered coins and me into bronze pennies. Good times Looks like the next LCA is one for the Penny Boys. Just spoke to Mr Gouby who is going along as well. From South London the usual Stan, Jeremy, Tom and I should be going. Should be a cracker of a sale.

A Very Happy New Year folks!!!!!! Before I say anything else, I wish Peter well. I am heartbroken for the loss of Mrs Peter whom most of us know very well. She will be truly missed. Thanks for all the messages that I’ve received from the forum members (especially Pete, Dave, Gary, Hazel and Jerry). I’ve been a bit busy lately and I have had far too much to tackle owing to a (failed) shot at emigrating. School, home, job the works I have not plugged any gaps last year but have managed a dozen or so upgrades including this one https://www.spink.com/lot-description.aspx?id=15006000529 Lastly Richard lovely site I must say and some real dollies you have on your site. I promise to be back soon. Happy hunting all.

Many thanks. I have added your contribution to the spreadsheet.

Anyone seen the 1867/77 penny on Fleabay? www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301240989167?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Pete, Have swapped one of the F76s with Jac happy to swap the other with you but it's not in great condition. Having seen your coins this one will fall flat on pedigree Will IM the photos to you when I reach UK. We can swap if you are interested.

So besides Freeman and V.R. Court there aren't any other penny surveys of interest? Mr T let's start our own Me thinks it would be good to start a headcount on some of the rarer variants and as most of the 'Big Fish' are on this forum it might be good to get started here. I am starting with the scarcer 1874 (8+G and 8+H) and 1874 H (F69 and F76) pennies Gouby's specialised bronze book provides the latest count on the pennies where he states that there are 7 known F76s and 9 known F69s (in all grades?) I am pretty sure there are a few more, because of the F69s I have 5 - 1 in Fine and 2 in Fair and 2 in good grade F76 I have 3 - 1 in GF 1 in Fair and 1 Poor Apart from this I have seen Gary Schindler sell 2 or 3 F69s on ebay a couple of years back. So as far as the F69s go I am of the opinion there are around 20 F69s and about 12 F76s. The obverse 8 1874 pennies are scarce in XF+ grade so let us limit the discussion on these to just XF and above. Unfortunately though I have about 30 obverse 8 pennies none of those are in grades over fine. Would like to hear from the other Bronze Boys about their thoughts on all 4 1874s once done I would like to start a similar rant on the 1861 scare variants.

nyc

Market is on the up for choice pieces. Seems like a sellers' market at the mo across the board for milled coins. What's the market like for the other categories (hammered, Ancient) - anyone?

Lol, you obviously don't know Mr Platt Half tempted to send him this (http://www.atlasnumismatics.org/1015220.jpg) as ref to what prooflike should be and this (http://www.atlasnumismatics.org/1017218.jpg) for bronze proof. However considering he might be guilty of deliberate misrepresentation I fail to see the point.