Thank's Rob for your comment's will look into that when i have a bit spare £. Peck i'm going to try the olive oil. I've used this before on coins that have been MD finds, i know it takes time but i've had great success in softening the debris etc then lightly using a tooth brush, if you remember i posted a thread about a year ago 1861 penny 1 over 1. I didn't know using olive oil may result in removing the verd, have you or any other member had success removing the verd using olive oil? Thanks james.