alfnail

Yes, that's true, but it's the same die, just deteriorates with use i. e. the 6 breaks

The obverse of the 1860/59 coins are always seen with the same features highlighted in RED on the attachment, doubled ‘ghosted’ ribbon, and scuffs under this ribbon and QV’s chin. Apart from the date features these things confirm all these pieces were struck from a single altered 1859 die (i.e. the narrow 59 type, which is fairly rare variety in itself on an 1859). I believe that an average figure for the number of coins which could be struck from a new die was around 30,000, but if a die was already partially used then it would probably produce less than that figure. I’m just wondering whether the rarity of 1860/59’s could be partially explained by the practice of using dies from earlier years, but not altering dates. For example, I understand that the mint figures for 1848 are only around 160,000, whereas for 1849 they are stated as 268,800. Clearly, however, 1849’s are much rarer than 1848’s, so this suggests that most of the 1849 number of 268,800 actually bear the date of 1848; the mint not bothering to alter 1848 dated dies when the calendar moved to 1849.

Thanks for your bids Ian, sorry you missed out. I thought the coins did pretty well again, justifying my decision to go the ebay route. Will aim to get more listings together for the Autumn.

Hi Mike, still a fair bit less than I paid for it 5 years ago........but it's early days!

Here is the webpage for my 'bun head' (inc. 1 'old head', before anyone corrects me!) penny sales, ending next Sunday between 9 and 10 pm if my calculations are correct, with clocks going forward Saturday night. Items for sale by alfnail | eBay

It's all gone now Cliff, haven't been to the barbers for many years........miss those chats about football and holidays!

I have decided to get one more group on ebay tonight if I get time today..............it will be Victorian Bronze pennies again.

Hi Mike, it's always painful to see part of your collection disappear, but I think my decision to place them on ebay was the right one. I chose pieces where I felt an auction house may not do them full justice in the event that my family sell them off one day when I'm not around. I'm thinking that the ones I may keep in my collection will be those where I can be sure that an auction house will get a decent price (i.e. easily recognised varieties) even if the person offering them for sale doesn't have much of a clue. It's also nice to see who bought your coins and, in many cases, I know they will remain in good hands and be cherished. I have already had several positive feedbacks and people asking me if I will be doing this again. I will probably sell another nice group on ebay when the clocks go back, after they first go forward..........so you can see I'm not planning to depart this world just yet!

I should say so, very jealous, did Harold give you the third degree?

Here is webpage for my 'bun head' penny sales, right click and then 'open in new window' https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/alfnail/m.html?item=402732525067&hash=item5dc4baa60b%3Ag%3AH48AAOSwQdhgQ4nS&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2562

Will do thanks Paddy, although think that can only be done once they have been listed, currently scheduled for later this evening.

I have decided to chance a dozen ‘bun head’ pennies from my collection on ebay; all but one will be on open auction starting between 8 and 9 p.m. this evening. I wanted to describe them myself as there are a few unusual ones, including 2 which are now in MG’s updated pages and one from Hiram Brown’s collection, and I wasn’t sure that an auction house would do them justice. Also, I’m thinking that with lack of BP then I may still get a decent price…….now hoping it’s a decision I won’t regret…………be an interesting exercise if nothing else!! It may be an opportunity for some members to add to their collections.

Hi Mike, There is also a first edition of Bramah (rarely seen) with a different coloured binder. I believe it has exactly the same contents as the one usually seen, with blue binder, apart from a missing flysheet saying first published in 1929. I would personally be happy to see a re-print of Bramah, even though it would surely devalue my own copy!

A bit more information around those 1843DFF figures Mike. My 5 year study of all ebay listings was between Sept 2007 and Sept 2012. There were 15 DFF's out of 130 listings of 1843's. I think it likely that this is a fairly accurate reflection of true (minted) proportions, as I do not believe that many people were collecting Bramah variations at that time. For example, see Richard's comments where he got one by luck! The coin I have just sold you was the best example from those 15 on ebay during that period. If I were to repeat the study now (which I will NOT be doing) then there is no way that you would see the same proportion of DFF's as there were approx. 10 to 15 years ago. More collectors have been looking for Bramah varieties since then, and most are now tucked away in collections. This is reflected by the fact that you have unsuccessfully searched high and low for one yourself for over a year. The same could be said for the 1844 DFF's, seen on both the 'Plain Tail' 4's and the 'Tails Up' 4's. I have done a breakdown of all the 1844's seen in the same 5 year period, and this is shown in the table below. Note that there were 60 examples of 1844 DFF's, highlighted in Yellow, so about 1 in 5 of 1844's had this 'feature' during my 5 year study. However, you have only seen 2 in the time you have been building your own collection of this series. Hope the table makes sense, and is clear enough to read; the first split is based on being able to see the numeral 4's clearly enough to determine type. Also note that the 'Tails Up' style of numeral 4 is clearly much more difficult than Plain 4, although there is a higher proportion of DFF's on 'Tails Up' numeral 4 type!! It's not really an F of course!!

Pleased to have been able to help Mike, just one more bit of the jigsaw to go! Happy hunting.

Caveat emptor Really getting into the swing of this now!!

Well spotted Pete. I saw that piece on Heritage and would have liked to have bought, but still at least twice what I would have paid......even for the rarer GRATI.A variety. Same Obverse Italic 5 die as paired with the very difficult Plain Trident + Italic 5.

Glad your efforts helped you to improve your collection Mike, thanks again.

Thanks for this Mike, also your pictures. Had a quick look through ebay and seems to me that most were the 'lustred' type rather than 'mint darkened', so not sure why Peck and Alexander should think the opposite! My coin is still way darker than the mint darkened ones though, perhaps someone has painted it lol 😁. It stuck out like a sore thumb amongst all the others of that era.

Just going through a large pile of old pennies, with a view to scrap, and came across this one. I'm not good on post-Victorian pennies but thought it a little strange. It's almost black, similar to colour of Edward Farthings, although less black around rim (as if worn off) as can be seen. I gave it a gentle wash in distilled water and dried with tissue paper, but none of black colour came off as far as I could see. The bag of coins was given to me by an old school friend who had them since the early 70's; I'm sure that he wouldn't have done anything to this coin to make it black as he would have had no interest. I know that there is an 1946 type sold as 'artificially darkened by the mint' but this seems a lot darker to me. Any thoughts please

Arthur is 85 years old. He's played golf every day since his retirement 20 years ago. One day, he arrives home looking downcast. "That's it...." he tells his wife, "I'm giving up golf. My eyesight has got so bad.” "Oh no!" she replied. Arthur then tells her, "Once I've hit the ball, I can't see where it went!" His wife sympathises. As they sit down, she has a suggestion: "Why don't you take my brother with you and give it one more try." "That's no good...." sighs Arthur, "George is 92. He can't help." "He may be 92...." says the wife, "but his eyesight is perfect." So the next day, Arthur heads off to the golf course with his brother-in-law. He tees up, takes an almighty swing and squints down the fairway. He turns to the brother-in-law. "Did you see the ball?" "Of course I did!", says the brother-in-law. "I have perfect eyesight." "And where did it go?" asks Arthur. “I Can't remember...”.😝

Maybe a nice little earner for you Richard!!