Is it also conceiveable that there was just a 1 and 8 matrix and the last 2 digits added? Looking at some of the dates on this thread, the 8s look wider from the 6 and 1 in some pictures than others (although this might just be the angle of the pictures). Might take the 4 1861s to work and measure with some digi verniers to see what we have. Arggggghhhh, just found another 1861 i have, making 5 geezusssssss. I have two really nice 1861s, both different dies, but i'm not going into all these die variations as a collection, just 1 date for each year, so my question now is, out of the following 2 coins, which one would you part with?