1949threepence

Or is he referring to the apostrophe type? He only mentions one, and that is obviously the better known.

It is. I note that NGC is free in this respect though.

Thanks Bob. New discovery as far as most of us are concerned.

There you go then, Bob. Your challenge, should you choose to accept it, is to get that 1946 dot penny published as a variety.

100% agreed.

I think what I mean is that a coin exhibiting, say, a single dot, such as the 1946 penny possessed by Bob, with no other known examples, is never going to be collectable by a group of competing collectors, as a) there is only one, and b) it isn't going to spark that much interest.

There's a strange irony about that. The very rare and the extremely rare are prized. But the one off otherwise unknown variety, is not. It isn't "collectable by collectors" as only one person can ever own it. I say "otherwise unknown" because if an 1863 die No 1 or 6 were to appear, it would be a one off, but part of a known family - so the same rules don't apply (as it were).

Could send you dotty....although I'm carrying on whatever, full stop.

Indeed. Here is a specimen:-

Mine too, Bob. *Adjacent to the 4th tooth after the E, whereas the dot on the pic above is adjacent to the 3rd tooth after. ETA * which you'd already said yourself in the post before the one I quoted..

That it is. So are we looking at two separate phenomena (for want of a better word)?

It is, but I think my theory is a possibility. Although the raised dot is in a place that doesn't suggest it was put there intentionally, who knows? There may be all manner of reasons why. Anyway compare and contrast the dot with the colon dots on this 1897. They are identical:-

I think so Bob, yes. Bit of a foreign accent - we've spoken before. She was a bit sharp at first, but seemed much pleasanter towards the end of our conversation. I suspect it's just the way she is.

I've become increasingly interested in the possibility that the 1897 O . NE penny might have been a full stop punched in the wrong place. Same principle might apply to other dot pennies, but for the purposes of this exercise I'm concentrating on the F147. If you examine the dot it is of perfect circular symmetry and is (as far as I can tell) exactly the same size and structure as a full stop or colon dot on the obverse. It certainly wouldn't attract any comment in the same position as a colon dot. Ranged against this argument, of course, is the documented discovery of pennies with only a mark in this area, suggestive of gradual formation due to die flaw. In an article written for the October 1976 edition of Coin Monthly (The importance of FLAWS AND VARIETIES on modern bronze, pages 67 to 71) Michael Freeman states in this regard (page 71):- However, in the 43 years which have elapsed since Mr Freeman noticed this apparently early stage flaw specimen of the 1897 dot, how many others have been seen where the dot is in this early stage? Does anybody have a picture of one? Might this formation have been unconnected with the dot, and just co-incidentally be in the same place? Thoughts?

So anyway, I called LCA today and was told that the mechanics of how to join is shown on the FAQ of the LCGS website, but I'm buggered if I could find it, having already looked. If it is there, it's very well hidden. As I said above, it does point out the benefits of membership (and the £99 fee to join), but not how to join. I pointed out that I was unable to find it and she advised me to send an e mail to the info at London Coins e mail address, with my details and she'd get back to me.

At my old school we had a Mr Sharpe and a Mrs Blunt among the teaching staff.

Elsewhere there is Teresa Green and Justin Case....back in real life, I knew of someone with the double barreled surname "Winter-Snow"

True story - we used to have a colleague called Mike Hunt, causing ribald laughter in the office every time he was called by tannoy to go somewhere. For a short time they tried "Mick Hunt", which caused even greater laughter. Eventually they just settled for "Mr Michael Hunt".....no sense of humour some people

Doesn't ring a bell for me, but if you're trying to track him down, you could always look on "my e bay" -> "summary" -> "see orders from" (what year). It only goes back to the beginning of 2017, unfortunately. But if you bought from him then, his name will still be alongside your purchase and not greyed out - clickable. Actually, I wish it went back a lot further than just 2017. There can be all manner of reasons why you might want to look back on a historic purchase.

Me too, although there is another one at the same auction that attracts me slightly more, and I won't have the funds to compete for both. As you say this is very unusual. Most patterns have not seen circulation, or at any rate nowhere near the circulation that this one has seen. It's the very fact this has circulated for so long that makes it so attractive. Imagine how the finder felt when discovering this coin in change, or however it was picked up. Would have been one of those events of such positivity for a collector, that it's never forgotten. Wonder when it was discovered? Maybe late 1940's/early 50's judging by the wear. Also, where's it been since then? These are the type of questions you ponder when looking at rare but well worn coins. Yes, I remember you mentioning this once before, Terry. As you say, your Mum must have felt a bit sick when she realised the value of what she'd held and inadvertently let go. But then the vast majority would not appreciate the value at the time. If she'd picked it up- during the war, it must have seen at least 2 or 3 years circulation then.

Yes. What I meant in my original remark is surprise that it could circulate for that length of time without at least one collector noticing it and stashing it away.

It is, Chris, yes. It's the F74 from the Copthorne collection.

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