1949threepence

That's the thing about coins. They will survive whoever inherits them, and they will continue to survive through many more inheritees - their births, marriages and deaths - so who knows where the coins we own today, will be residing in say 2500. Often I look at a really old coin in lustrous condition and think it almost certainly looked exactly like it does now, 150+ years ago. The same on the day I, parents, grandparents and great grandparents were born, back to ancestor relatives who died way before our forebears were thought of (assuming they were thought of). With the same little blemishes, the same trace of a fingerprint, the same edge knock and so on. Also a well worn coin. How many millions of times did it change hands? How many countless pockets, purses, banks, tills and piggy banks has it been in, during those many decades of circulation? Interesting to ponder.

But doesn't detract.......

You just wonder how they could have made such a schoolboy error. They even compounded their own ineptitude by saying "LCW under shield". Unbelievable.

Neat find Terry.

I could see why you were interested given what sold last night.

Some of them are ludicrously low - like the £150 to £250 for an 1863 die No 3 under date last year.

To be honest, I never noticed it until you said.

I've got to wait until all the first 9 cohorts are done. Although my partner is in a vulnerable category and will be in cohort 6, just after the 65 to 69 age group, which has actually already started in many areas. My parents are in their 70's and had their jabs a few weeks ago - both had the Pfizer. .

Mine was a stray before she came to me in 2012, and was used to her freedom. I found it literally impossible to keep her in from day 2, when she ran out through the front door when I was having something delivered - and they can move damn fast when they choose. I've got a cat flap so she come and go as she wants. Although she doesn't go out much in the Winter. Conversely most of those warm Summer nights she spends outside & sleeps in the house during the days. Somewhat oddly, she's never brought dead mice/birds in the house.

Well, obviously the top grade 1926 ME. More charisma and better known. But even so, that's not to downplay the cache which would attach to obtaining a 1946 "dotty". In fact not so much a dot, more an apostrophe shape.

They are Jon, and there is no doubt they do kill many millions of birds and small mammals every year. But the vast majority of birds they kill, would have died shortly afterwards anyway. Even the RSPB concede that - link Bottom line is that cats will be cats. It's hard wired in them to hunt prey.

Yes. A lot of people blame cats. But they only get chicks or the old and sick. The rest are way too quick for them. Most are killed as a result of bird on bird predation.

Martin, the only possible theory I can promote for the apparently low number of very worn F14's is that most collectors, pre melt, were simply looking for LCW under foot, and at that time, were maybe unaware of the other F14 diagnostics. Given that the F14 was a very scarce variety to begin with, and that the LCW is an early casualty of wear, it's entirely plausible that worn examples of the F14 just ended up in the melt - the higher middish grade examples from circulation having been squirrelled away over the preceding decades - and the earlier back they were removed from continuing circulation, the more likely they were to be not so worn that the LCW had disappeared. So I'd bet most of the mid grade ones were collected before 1930. I hope that makes logical sense, although it may not be right. Not simple to find reasons as there are so many variables, and so much completely unrecorded. So it's a bit of a guessing game. Hopefully others will also have ideas.

It's incredibly rare in high grade. I seem to remember reading somewhere on here that Dave Craddock had seen only one UNC specimen in 50 odd years. That's rare !

Great idea.

Just scanned through LCA. In 17 years they've sold 6, 3 in more or less BU, and three in mid grade - like this one You're right in that there do seem to be a disproportionately large number of very high grade F14 examples for some weird reason. I wonder if a stash was once found, ex bank and never circulated. Just slowly released for collectors. Although that theory wouldn't explain the differing die cracks also found on unc specimens. If they were all together you'd expect the die cracks to be identical. Funnily enough we discussed this very thing a week or two back on the "More Pennies" thread."

There's a nice one going at the March LCA - link to Although it's a bit more than fair to fine, so might be more than you're willing to pay.

Hmmm.....this is how it looks in hand. Not darkened as in the e bay photo. Only done one side as they're both the same. How misleading can a photo be? Oh well, at least it's better than the one I've got, so not a total waste of money.

Maybe, but it still looks like wear in a year not necessarily associated with weak strikes. Shouldn't have been graded anywhere near as high, surely.

That's actually very good value for a PT 1853.

Wonder which were minted first from a pairing with that unique die, Ian - the OT or PT type. I'd assume it was the OT, then the PT, maybe right at the end of production for 1853. Rare for both.

I wondered that. I think their grading standards are slipping somewhat.

True, although I doubt many would have noticed - and the seller in this case definitely wouldn't have noticed. I'd lay odds on that. To the majority of buyers and dealers it would just be an OT 1853 italic 5 penny. Still massively overpriced either way.

As I see the situation, it's companies like Heritage and others asking ridiculously inflated premiums for slabbed items, where all the serious money is migrating, and not much is ever said about it as they trade under a facade of fair trade and respectability - and as far as the coins themselves are concerned that is true, but equally true is that you're being royally ripped off. . All numismatic concerns are profit driven, but especially some of those based in the USA, and especially when it comes to slabbed items. Take this 1853 OT penny - it's about EF, and to be honest nothing truly special and certainly not rare. I got one in slightly better shape than that from a dealer in Sussex for just £75 last July. Look what this US based dealer is asking for a slightly below equivalence coin - £400. That's a mark up of over 500% on what I paid a UK dealer for a better (raw) coin 7 months ago. In my opinion it's nothing short of bloody scandalous.

Could it be a repaired F? The appearance bears some similarity to the repaired F in the DEF of some 1841 pennies.