1949threepence

Thing is, whoever is ultimately responsible for all this spam, really can't have a lot of intelligence. As a form of advertising it is 100% useless. The only effect it has on nearly all sites, is to irritate both the owners and users, who, by definition, will have absolutely no interest whatsoever in what s being offered ~ and even that pre-supposes they can understand the garbage that forms the advert.

Some forums admin vet every new applicant member before they can post ~ and that is for this very reason: spam posts. Maybe consideration should be given for a similar approach here ?

Oh that's easy. There's one on the moon - it was taken there in the B52 bomber that's also up there. Probably another one at the end of the rainbow, Peck It's keeping that BU 1926ME you were looking for, company........

Well there will always be exceptions here and there, and you were lucky, Dave. I also did say they existed in private collections. If you'd now like to point me in the right direction of where to look for an UNC 1864 crosslet 4, I'm listening

Well, there's an abundance of low and middle grade stock. It's the high end material which is becoming very difficult to locate, and when it actually is, one must often be prepared to dig very, very deep in order to obtain such decent items. Undoubtedly prices for quality coins has risen very sharply this year. I can speak from first hand experience here, as I have gradually been assembling my bun penny collection. The intention was always to buy high grade material, and I set myself what I now realise was the absurd objective of obtaining every example in at least EF, up to and including (eventually), the much vaunted 1869. However, even since I started the bun collection in early 2010, I have noticed the high grade coins increasingly fetching far more than one might have hoped for (as a buyer) at auction, and dealers quoting higher asking prices for each one. Moreover, at the risk of becoming a crashing bore on the matter, I will again re-iterate that it is virtually impossible to even locate for sale some high grades within this bun penny sphere. As a consequence, actually buying them ~ even at a grossly inflated price ~ is out of the question since they are just not available. I would cite both types of 1864, the 1875H, as well as the 1877 and 1879 narrow date. Such high grade examples do exist, but they are hidden away in private collections, and unlikely to be put back on the market in a hurry. Oddly enough, the rare 1860 beaded border, and the 1869, are not impossible to locate and buy in top grade. As far as the remainder of your question is concerned, I would say that there most definitely is a solid future for numismatics, both for genuine collectors and investors. But I fear that we could see a two tier economy developing in this respect. Genuine, but not massively wealthy collectors/dealers hitting a glass ceiling when it comes to obtaining certain high end rarities, either because they are totally out of reach financially, or just not available, and wealthy speculators who are buying somewhat indiscriminately, in order to boost their precious metal holdings. Incidentally, I hold most UK collectors and dealers close together in terms of overall motivation when it comes to coins, and this includes internet dealers. Many dealers are themselves collectors who hold a genuine interest in the hobby, as well as being a vast resource of technical knowledge on the subject. When the US starts taking a serious interest in our holdings, we may see a rise in prices whch makes today's increases look like chicken feed in comparison. If you are a genuine collector for the long term, then now NOW, is the time to feverishly enrich your collection, ahead of a potential gold rush from across the pond. I hope I'm wrong.

LOL To be perfectly honest the whole thing irritated the hell out of me years ago. Why, oh, why did we not go the whole hog and properly adopt the metric system instead of retaining mph, pints of milk and beer (isn't a litre of beer better than a pint? Of course it is!) I used to ask. But now I'm older I kinda like the eccentricity of a system based on 12s and body part lengths. I actually do wonder if it didn't keep us all more mentally agile having to work in feet and pints and ounces. And most certainly, as I watch for the billionth (US) time the checkout assistant looking to see how much change the machine says I need, I think we've gotten used to not having to use our brains. Whether £SD would make a difference I'm not sure. (LSD might!) Maybe there's a good case for cashing in on our british eccentricity and reverting to a monetary system nobody else uses? Then when the EU says "You vill be oving us der twohunnert million Pfunds" we can reply "so, that's ... (licks end of pencil and scrawls on back of ciggy pack) .. 400 Guineas, fifteen groats! No problem Guv, the cheque's in the post, or if you're willing to forget the groats you can have cash?" I'm with you all the way on the ability of checkout assistants and change. When I were a lad, back in the 60s and working for J Lyons, I often worked the till at the end of the long self-service counter. One hot august bank holiday monday, I was doing the lunchtime shift, when horror of horrors, we lost mains power. I've got a queue a mile long anyway, and now I've got to add up every tray in my head in LSD. So that's a steak and kidney pie at 3/11, a portion of chips at 9d, peas at 7p a cup of tea at 3/1/2, a piece of bread at 3d and butter at 2d, and then work out the change. And that's just one tray. The real problems came with the customer who suddenly said, 'put all three trays together'. Worked wonders for my mental arithmatic!! Such mental digital gymnastics, would certainly keep you on your toes, Dave

Ah well..........fantasy meets reality. Even so, I'd bet that with probably nearly 500 pennies, say, one could glean some pretty good ~ and scarce ~ stuff. Me too ~ a truly mouth watering prospect

I'm not sure? One's a striking error, the other is a design error. In my eyes, the two things are worlds apart (from a personal 'desirability' point of view). Possibly ~ that one could be up for debate. I'm honestly not sure.

Or a £5 bank bag of mixed bronze that has been sitting in the back of a safe since the mid 1880s would suit me, hours if sorting! That would be one of those amazing once in a lifetime, never to be repeated moments, that rarely happen

I'm going to go out on a rather eccentric limb here, and say that I actually prefer the imperial system of weights and measures, to the metric one. It's more traditional....oh, and talking of tradition, there are a greater number of degrees on the Fahrenheit scale as well, making it more detailed, than a Celsius with a decimal point on the end. Call me a flat Earther if you like

That's not far off a 50% handling fee The phrase "Jesus wept" springs readily to mind. No offence to the religious.

Always very interesting to see these error coins. Ironically enough they'd be worth more, if a larger batch had been produced. Like the 2008 20p's with no date.

Not BU, but about uncirculated !!! Nice penny Michael, is it yours? Crikey, I wish David. No it's an image from Tony Clayton's website.

Not BU, but about uncirculated !!!

One of these in the condition shown:- A distant dream, but a delightful one

I wish I couold help you, but I know absolutely nothing about hammered coins. Hopefully someone else on here can, although I note it's a few days now, since you posted.

Yes, if you found a business strike circulation £1 coin dated 1985 in decent nick, it would be well worth keeping. Same applies to 1986 and 1988 too, IMO.

A few years ago I went to buy some vinyl flooring for the bathroom; the rolls were 2 metre wide, but the carpet shop sold lengths by the yard! Crazy system, our kids are taught metric at school, but the real world exists in imperial The French ditched £sd (Livres, sols, et deniers) in 1800 and introduced the standard metre and kilogram The whole world (except ouselves and the Americans) uses metric in everyday life, and all science and engineering is now in SI units (no more Horse Power or Foot Poundals) So why do we insist on buying boiled ham in ounces? It is a crazy system, David, as we are neither one thing nor the other. At least the continentals and the Americans are unashamedly either metric or imperial. But I'll still stick to buying a quarter of ham at the deli If you are numerate, it doesn't matter which system(s) you use. The wonderfully convenient calculator was the downfall of mental arithmetic. If I play darts I use chalk to mark, but frequently seem to be in a minority of one or two. The majority can't do basic sums, but can prod a keypad - sounds familiar? If people use a machine to calculate even basic sums, then metric is the only way. Standardising is extremely useful as it helps to prevent cock-ups such as the Mars lander where a combination of imperial and metric units caused it to hit the surface at three times the intended speed. What I find truly disquieting, Rob, is that the current crop of say, under 23's, even have difficulty performing simple sums with a calculator. Percentages, ratios, division are often beyond them, and one even wondered why there was a tick on one of calculator keys ~ I kid you not. I hadn't the heart to try and explain how square roots work. They may be brilliant at social networking, but are predominantly woeful when it comes to figure work. Although because I've always liked maths, maybe I'm being a tad judgemental. I don't know.

Crikey, that really is generous What a charming picture she paints, Peter Excellent post. You are right about plastic coffins. Indeed, the very word "slabbed" conjures up the inevitable image of the "mortuary slab" What does worry me is that if the Americans seriously do muscle into our market, the price of some of our coins, will go through the roof in a way not yet envisaged.

A few years ago I went to buy some vinyl flooring for the bathroom; the rolls were 2 metre wide, but the carpet shop sold lengths by the yard! Crazy system, our kids are taught metric at school, but the real world exists in imperial The French ditched £sd (Livres, sols, et deniers) in 1800 and introduced the standard metre and kilogram The whole world (except ouselves and the Americans) uses metric in everyday life, and all science and engineering is now in SI units (no more Horse Power or Foot Poundals) So why do we insist on buying boiled ham in ounces? It is a crazy system, David, as we are neither one thing nor the other. At least the continentals and the Americans are unashamedly either metric or imperial. But I'll still stick to buying a quarter of ham at the deli

Also the fact that in terms of bronze issue, they were the longest running design by far, lasting for near 35 years. When you consider the nearest competition was the piffling 15 years of Geo V (1911-1926) and 11 years of Geo VI (1937-48), which are the longest running predecimal designs since (technically, the Eliz II design ran from 1954-1970, but effectively it's only a six year span), that's a hell of a long run. Plus of course, the mystery of getting that flat disc with perhaps a mere silhouette of Victoria on the obverse, and if you were lucky a CD on the reverse. Yet with all the rare varieties you scoured that date just in case! Pennies from 1895 seemed to occur more frequently in VG or even F, the same with Ed VII. Yes, of course, they ran for 34 years (35 separate years counting every year from 1860 to 1894 inclusive) with no breaks, widely varying mintages, and many different types/varieties. No wonder they are so collectable !!!

It's about NEF and has obviously spent a few decades resting in less than ideal conditions, but it would have been manna from heaven for me, just as it was to you at the time, David Yes, although money apart, we live in a rather strange hybrid imperial/metric mix world today in this country. I was taught fully in metric, but for many things, I think imperial, having been brought up with it at home, and so do most others. Who, for example, thinks of their own or others height and weight, in metres and kilograms ? Very few. Absurdly, traders are co-erced into quoting dual weights for food (it was very nearly metric only until the EU relented late on), whereas we still have road signs in yards. We also use miles not kilometres, and the size of TV screens are still quoted in inches.

Typical Daily Telegraph article of the 'things are never as good as they used to be' ilk. I would however tend to agree about the quality of design, but why he picks the humdrum 1902-27 halfcrown is beyond me. And as for retaining the old l.s.d. system? Do me a favour. Bit Colonel Blimpish, that article. I do love the Ed VII halfcrown reverse, especially seen in mint state. But ahead of the standing Britannia florin reverse? No way! As for working out how many twopenny-halfpenny bars can be bought for £5 4s 10d - pffft. I for one am glad we went to the decimal system. I have to say, that I found the article absolutely brilliant. Really enjoyed reading it, and appreciated the idiosyncratic style it was written in. This bit particularly fascinated me:- It must have been the thrill of a lifetime to receive a high grade bun in your change. As he said, most were flat discs, or well worn by the 1960's, but I suppose, just very occasionally, you'd get that odd really good example turning up, that you would probably have kept for life. I often wondered what it is about buns that makes them such a popular collecting target, and then it struck me that it might be the sheer length of time they were in circulation ~ and in considerable popular circulation at that. Well used coins, unlike the 1 & 2 p's of today. In circulation for over 100 years in some cases ~ so you could have received a "flat disc" 1861 and a 1961 penny in your change during the 60's. That might have lent them a certain unique charisma which remains to this day. As for exam questions in lsd, I did actually look up an old O level maths paper and had a go at it (maths was my favourite subject at school). From 1958 I think, it featured money type calculations, all in lsd obviously. I found myself converting all the sums to pennies, for ease of calculation, then re-converting them back to the higher denominations. Somewhat surprisingly, I don't recall any of the questions referring to half pennies or farthings. I managed the questions, and got them right, but in reality, I would have struggled for time to complete the paper in the allotted 2 hours. Either half of the paper, as they were split in two over separate days back then. No calculators either then, so I refrained from using one, and did everything long hand, For the lsd questions, calculators would only have been of limited use anyway.

Very interesting and thought provoking post by petition crown. There can be no doubt that a "perfect storm" of factors have recently combined to boost coins into another stratosphere of investment opportunity. Major and protracted global recession, deep economic gloom as well as increasing angst about inflation, have resulted in a dash for safety by those holding substantial but vulnerable non tangible assets. Usually these people will not be collectors with a significant aesthetic interest in coins, and indeed coins may only feature as the "precious metal" component of their portfolio. Nevertheless I am heartened by your assertion that the majority of those who start out as investors, do actually become collectors in the fullness of time. We cannot in any way discount the true collectors/dealers who, inspired by the obviously enhanced interest, will also up their own game and snatch opportunities which may be invisible to the wealthy, yet rookie, coin investor, by utilising long held acquired skills, just to show they can outwit them. This naturally leads on to the question of quality piece availabilty ~ just how many choice specimens are squirrelled away in private collections globally, never to see the light of day again, at any rate, probably not in our lifetimes. This has undoubtedly resulted in an ever increasing ratio of quality to price: hard to obtain BU or UNC items, being snapped up immediately at prices which show a steepening differential to even EF and below. In some cases all the choice specimens are already lost to buyer availability, although they almost certainly exist somewhere. Then there is something I had previously never given serious consideration to, namely an overspill of the US market into English coins, as their coins reach record prices, and ours are seen as an attractive alternative option. Again that will boost prices as demand for quality pieces is yet again lit from another angle. Finally there is the internet, which has brought together the entire numismatic community under one easily accessible, much less obscure, roof. This provides a high speed vehicle, in extremis, for investment cash. The additional delights of e bay are already very well documented, but as the art and hobby become ever more sophisticated, e bay is in my view, becoming slightly left behind. Already it is very apparent that fewer and fewer quality pieces are appearing there. Those that do are going for much higher prices. Concluding, the future looks both inspiring and depressing. For rich investors, trading in a league of their own, it's one of a few possible gateways to economic safety. For the less well off dealers and genuine collectors ~ who in all fairness are often one and the same ~ the outlook is one of much greater scarcity of quality resources, and therefore altogether more tenuous.

"Well it's toning Jim, but not as we know it" That is an absolutely hideous artifically induced abortion of an attempt at toning. Does the would be seller just not realise that you don't get toning on already well worn coins. Real toning on UNC and near UNC bronze is a smooth thing of utter beauty.