1949threepence

Not good. Hopefully nobody will fall for it.

Don't know who's making them, but they're getting better at it. However, there are still flaws. I can see at a glance it's a fake, especially the obverse, which just doesn't look right. Also there's no LCW under the shield, which there would be on Obverse 6, reverse D with a wide date (F29). The F33 reverse G has no LCW but a narrower date.

Just come across this "reproduction" 1861 penny. Curious to know what variety the copiers had modelled it on, I took a closer look, and it appear to be a copy of a F29. Predictable enough. Anyway, another possible addition to your fakes site, Richard. link to

In Reading rather than London, but this numismatic bookshop might be worth a try at some point. http://www.douglassaville.com/

and so is the 1944 bright finish specimen in Gary's collection.

Absolutely. We've seen that "light" mint toning on the 1934 as well. They vary from dark to light.

I'd bet that the odd ones which did turn up in change post 1980 were most likely found in old drawers, pockets etc, and just added to be spent by individuals completely unaware of any further intrinsic interest or value (not that one on its own would be of much use anyway)

Indeed, there is that. But then your first one looks as though there are some edge knocks as well, albeit not as glaring. At the end of the day it's a personal judgement call.

Marginally more detail on your new one, Paddy. Most noticeable around. Britannia's head and helmet IMO.

A really good specimen that left you in absolutely no doubt.

During all the times I spent in amusement arcades in Southend as a kid, I never once managed to get anything from those damn things. As soon as you go anywhere near the drop point, the grabber would open and drop the item somewhere else. Those machines were obviously fixed.

Plus, if it's the one I'm thinking of, wasn't it the wrong obverse for a F112, Jerry?

I wonder why they vanished so quickly, as compared to the pennies. You'd have thought they both saw about the same level of circulation, overall.

I received a 1942 florin in my change circa October 1989. That was literally the one and only time I ever received any pre 1947 coinage.

Dreadful. His mistake was flashing it about on facebook. He also told the media his collection was worth £15k.

I just don't see how you can successfully strip down a fully MT coin so that just the hypo is washed away and what looks like a MT coin with lustre emerges. The 1945 and 1946 non MT I have, show the normal base metal lustre gleaming in the usual fashion as you turn them in the light. I don't think they've been messed with at all. If you can demonstrate how it would be done, then I'll take my metaphorical hat off, stand and applaud. But I don't think you can - and don't forget you were the one who scoffed at warm soapy water, and suggested petrol. Generally speaking, you can recognise a cleaned coin a mile off.

Be honest Pete. It's all guesswork on your part isn't it? I don't think even one in 100 have been cleaned. Why should they have been? It would mean that they would have been taken when virtually just minted, cleaned, and then held in the same state until put up for sale recently. But not looking cleaned and with the original lustre still intact. A cleaned coin, previously hypo'd is as shown above. The ones I've got are not cleaned, although they may have a lot less hypo on than a fully MT one, and not be truly non MT. Again, guesswork on all our parts. Although of the three, I do think 1944 is the hardest to find in non MT unc, just as it is in MT.

Here is the same coin after treatment with a brillo pad and some Mr Muscle. There is no mistaking it for a non MT. It looks properly cleaned.

Hmmm, be really fascinating to know how many MT pennies have been singled out for the petrol treatment lol Nah, not going that far, but I will use something on it. Like I said, immersing in warm soapy water, was a start. My view is that if it looks non MT it probably is (the large picture above, excepted), or that some nearly are depending on the extent of the hypo dousing they got, or avoided. I don't buy for one second that a substantial number have been cleaned. As you said yourself, they're hardly prime objects of numismatic interest

Why should so many of them have been cleaned? The odd one yes, but I can't see why cleaning would have been as widespread on these modern circulation coins, as you are implying. Anyway, as I said, I will clean this MT 1946 and show it once done. I'll be interested in the results. (starting by immersing in warm soapy water)

But you advised me by PM about that guy who had 1944, 1945 and 1946, all UNC non MT, on offer for £15.00 each. So they can't be that scarce, surely. I've got a duplicate MT in UNC, so I'll do a before pic, then try cleaning it. If it works, I'll post the result on here. Possibly, although looks a bit narrow for a staple. Maybe a different type to the office staples I'm thinking of.

Don't know, you could be right. But it was so dirt cheap I decided to buy it anyway. I note it is the wide date variety referred to earlier by @terrysoldpennies with the last 4 over a tooth. The only other 1944 I can find with a (supposed) bright finish was in the Crocker collection, and that too has the final 4 over a tooth. Same as Terry's on the previous page. In hand I'm no further forward than with the pic above. Through the loupe it looks almost UNC in some parts, and more worn in others. Anomaly. Pleased to say though I have managed to get 1945 and 1946 bright finishes relatively easily. Didn't take that much of a search. The 1945 one has got a few dark stains on the reverse (don't look like carbon spots). Maybe this is a tiny bit of hypo which splashed on to this coin, but otherwise didn't get the full treatment.

Totally agree. They are attempting to artificially contrive a collectors market, which doesn't truly match the collector's mindset. I think we are all about collecting from a population not constructed for collection, such as currency issues.

Very interesting, Paddy. Thanks. I like this bit:- Tell that to the 1p coin dated 1990 and sitting with many of it's contemporaries, BU or near so in numerous jars across the country.

Anyway, back to you, @Pavel Portobello Road is always an interesting place to visit if you get the time. I also hope you get to visit Charing Cross collectors Market. I might give it a whirl myself at some point.