Sylvester

From a numismatic point of view, the euro is a terrible thing. Kiss goodbye to all the variety, the end of interesting coins, as in coins that can actually change obverse and reverse, with the euro you can only change the reverse as if you changed the other then well it kinda defeats the purpose of trying to have all of them looking the same... Take the Irish euros...having seen pictures of them, if i remember rightly the obverse has the euro obverse, the reverse is a harp? Is it a harp on all of the denominations? Now look at the pre-euro Irish coins, harp on one side, and a different reverse for each coin on the other. If the UK joins the Euro, the choice will be either keep the elements of the UK on all the reverses, or keep the Queen, you don't really have room to keep both. You keep the queen because that's what i should imagine what people expect to happen, then say good bye to any varience between the denominations. Say goodbye to the Queen and you destroying a British tradition...but you might have more interesting coins...alright maybe not. Either way it's just replacing one set of junk uninspired coinage (which is what we've got now, except the designs change occasionally on both sides), with an inflexible even more uninspired set of junk...that changes less frequently. And it's also a blow from a national point of view, and from an economics point of view. The UK's economy is stronger than some countries on the euro, join it and our economy will be effected. There is also the concern of possible hyperinflation, if Germany goes down in a crisis for example, since France and places share the same currency they go down too...you can no longer just adjust the exchange rates between the two to help limit the impact. Also the euro is not flexible enough, if one country is doing really well and wants to revalue the currency they can't, likewise the opposite can happen. But it does mean you can buy things from Chris easier...so it does have some good points. Sylvester.

Well Eliza i'll wait and see what you find on the mintage figures front, if you do find anything then i'll be glad of a photocopy of the relevant bits... I've got my eye on one of those books, but my cash is tied up at the moment, Christmas shopping is pending and whether i'll have enough left over and all. Otherwise i'll have to wait till January. (i know they are not that expensive, but i'm on a tight budget until the new year) Sylvester.

Chris you're right, i forgot about the cartwheel stuff...steam presses indeed for these. Not sure about what was used prior to this, horses are a very likely possibility. Sylvester.

For one minting coins in such high relief nowdays at the speeds that are used in modern methods, i'd hate to see what'd happen to the die after a couple thousand... Minting was done by hand presses from 1663-1815 was it not? Then from 1816 steam powered machines took over... When i say hand operated presses, i do not mean hammered coins... Sylvester.

M. Pierre Blondeau was the guy that did all the milling in Charles II's reign. Before him of course there had been, Mestrelle (Bessie's reign) and Briot (Chopped Charlie's reign..sorry Charles I ). Mestrelle later got dismissed from the mint and some years later was hung for forgery. Sylvester.

[ASIDE]...George Bower was also responsibly for the 1689 half guinea, and some of the William and Mary Halfpenny and farthings. The coins he designed often had rather comical portraits... Sylvester.

It could indeed be that. It could also be a method for the mint to do random quality checks to make sure it's employees weren't making the coins substandard by nicking off with *surplus* metal...that should have been in the coins. [ASIDE]...Kinda like the old hammered silver coins, officials would haul a few out of circulation and test them for weight and finess, to make sure that the moneyer wasn't making a sneaky profit by producing substandard coins... [bACK TO FARTHINGS]...If you don't think that's plausible then, i'm sure i read somewhere about all the underhand things that went off later in W3's reign with the production of copper at the provincial mints. Many coins were often cast rather than minted as it saved money! And there were many foreigners employed that could not even spell the kings name, hence all those wonderful spelling mistakes of William, and of course the lack of design and detail on these coins and inferior workmanship. Sylvester.

Regarding the flan manufacturing in a word Chris, no. No it wasn't as uniform as it is today, if you look at the early stuff you'll notice that they are not totally round, or to put it another way the diameter around the coin is not consistent the whole way around. Try stacking a few lower grade half crowns on top of each other, or better yet some of the maundy stuff as it's smaller, and i should imagine rounding the smaller coins would be harder. You'll notice that a pile of early milled coins never look as good stacked as a pile of late milled coins, which are exactly the same size all way around, and about as round as round gets, (unless it's a fifty pence of course!) They also look better stacked because of the higher rims and lower relief... Therefore i suppose the might clip them for that reason...if they were overweight... Only other reason i could think of was to check the consistency of tin/copper purity, but they could do this by using the leftovers after they cut the blanks out of a rolled sheet. Sylvester.

Don't underestimate my mother! I did look where that got me... And about the coin, thank you Chris! That is very generous of you, and i will take good care of it...it will join the slightly bent 1696 sixpence that i aquired in a bag of scrap silver, currently in my good collection awaiting replacement with a better one, but i've got my eye on one!. I'll send you my snail mail address in a private email. Thanks again! Sylvester.

Sorry Chris...but i'm sure you'll pull me up on something so fair's fair! Sylvester.

Ah Eliza i presume you mean the use of the word English rather than British with regards to Mackay's book. The reason is that if it's from Henry VII then it would be English coins, as Henry VII through to Elizabeth I were monarchs of England only, Scotland had their own kings (and Queen, singular intended) prior to 1603. When Elizabeth died in 1603 her cousin James VI or Scotland inherited the throne of England and that's when it became Britain. However Scotland continued minting it's own coins until about Anne's reign? So they still would be English Coins up until about 1707. When the Act of Union took place, that's when the coins became British! (I think...) So English is more accurate than British in that sense. Sylvester. Eliza i would be very glad of photocopies, but l will check for the book first though...thanks!

Chris, thanks for making me the offer on the coin. The truth is i do need it...but, i am attempting to find as many of them in as higher grade as possible. The George II stuff should mostly be about EF- and upwards, (except for the rarer stuff like that 1746 Proof). I haven't come across any UNC ones yet though. Coins in the following grades are really what i'm looking for (but it takes me a while to save up for them)... *George II EF- or higher, *George I VF+ or higher (where possible, i would settle for a good VF though), *Anne VF+ or higher preferably AEF, *William III AEF+, *William and Mary i only need the 1693 (upside down 3) and 1694, AVF-VF+ is about the grade i could afford, roughly AVF on the '94 one. *James II AVF-GVF, *Charles II VF-VF+. (I really appreciate the workmanship of these coins and the higher the grade the more detail to appreciate!) But some coins may have to be ever so slightly lower depending on what's available, but no mounted coins, no holed coins, preferably no haymarked coins (but for some reason this is common on coins of this period, how does it happen exactly?), no counterstamped coins, and no creased or bent coins. As you can see i'm fussy about this particular denomination. Now if it had been a William III half guinea i would have settled for bent, creased or haymarked, (wouldn't have an ex mount though, or a cleaned coin). I bidded on one on Ebay, and i got thoroughly beaten, i gave up after £300, and that was a slightly bent example in about F, it went for about £400 in the end...and for a 1701 coin in that condition, some people have more money than brains, even i went too high and i probably would have broken the bank if i'd won it...so i'm glad i didn't, but i'm even gladder that i made someone else pay more for it. I suppose that's the consolation prize when you lose something you really wanted, to know that someone has paid over the odds for it, perhaps two and a half times of what it's actually worth. Still since i can't really afford to collect half guineas, i'll stick to sixpences. My parents think i am wasting my money (despite the fact that my father was a semi-serious coin collector himself...he still gets on at me [i think he was more of a stamp man...which is an hobby i never really took to, and quit 2 weeks into it]). My parents think £20 on a coin is scandalous, hence they don't know about most of my coin purchasing...if they'd found out i'd spent £225 on a James II half guinea they would have gone up the wall! I remember telling them i'd paid £70 for a 1750 EF+ sixpence (actually it was £200), and my mother went mad...talk about a lecture, good job i didn't tell her what i really paid, only reason why she found out i'd got it in the first place is because she had to sign for the parcel! Sylvester.

Florins were legal tender until 30th June 1993... Sylvester.

Some people would say i'm mad (and some indeed have said this), i just say i'm imaginative... Sylvester... Bringing Numismatics alive...

Well you never know she might have seen a picture of one! Grrr i didn't think about the date on the cheque book. I could just tell em it was an error, or perhaps, perhaps i could just redated it '84... Might work... might... Sylvester.

I just ended up at ABE too searching for the book you mentionned no luck as you said...i got there entirely by accident, so don't think that i didn't believe you, cos i did. There is one book on there entitled; 'A Start to Coin Collecting. English Coins Elizabeth II To Charles II' ...never heard of it so i couldn't say whether it's any good or not. But the reason why i picked it out is because it was written by one Margaret Amstell, and that name looked very familiar to me... Then i realised that she was the one that was mentionned in my 1985 coin price guide as setting a new all time record for a British Coin, when she bought one of the few surviving Henry III Gold Pennies for £65, 000. In 1985 money that was a phenominal amount, (still is from where i'm sitting) bearing in mind that you could buy 1694 sixpences for £110 in VF. Now they go for £250 in VF. If only i could go back to 1985 for a day with the money i have now...well i'd write out a cheque so that they wouldn't look at me gone out when i hand them a few Fry fivers rather than Wellington fivers, or conversly ridiculously small 5ps, rather than ones that are considerably bigger and harder to lose. Oh if only... Sylvester.

Eliza keep me posted on what you find! (if anything!). I went to my library today as i promised i would but i found nothing much except general books that just showed you the odd picture, but no real info for advanced collectors. Sylvester.

Actually someone's voted MS66! WHAT!!! CAPITAL LETTERS CAN'T DESCRIBE WHAT I'M THINKING NOW... Sylvester.

Yes i'm afraid they did, MS63 and i shook my head when i saw that! I think i gave it VF35 tops, might have been lower though. It's definately not EF in my opinion, but then again it's not my field of speciality and i hate grading cents so i avoid them wherever possible. Sylvester. Sadly it is US dominated, but it's helped me gain some info on the US stuff so i'm indebted to it on that front, and i get on well with all the regulars on there. Sadly most things on the internet are US biased, that's why i try and brighten up their little lives with a few shillings and such...

Here's a link to some photos of my Early Milled (EM) and some of my LM sixpences... arranged from newest to oldest. (They are scans and thus some of the scans don't do the coins justice...and in some cases [like the Edward VII one] this could be considered a good thing as it hides some of the ghastly toning). I would have posted them on here but the sheer amount would have Chris thinking i'm spamming the place, + it would take quite a while! http://www.numisaddict.com/showthread.php?...=&threadid=2310 Also Chris it'd be good advertising for you, if you were to post a message on the group in the link, as some of the collectors on there are interested in British coins. Perhaps we can win some more people over to the 'Darkside'...or so the US only collectors refer to it... Sylvester

Here's a link to a picture of that Double Eagle...amongst some other coins in my gallery on another group i regularly frequent. http://www.coinpeople.com/forums/album_per....php?user_id=36 Sylvester.

Christians would probably say Godless Florins are True but not being a Christian... i must admit i like em alot, now there is a coin i would love to specialise in, i make that 4 varieties, 1848 proof, 1849 w.w., 1849 w.w. partially obliterated, 1849 w.w. totally obliterated. But i'll not continue this conver further since it belongs on the late milled section. I know i'm bad...

Any sixpences dated between 1675 and 1751 in there? Grade dependant of course. Sylvester.

If anyone is willing to pay that much for one of those then they are mad! I got one in a bag of coins that i bought off of Ebay, of course i didn't buy it, it just came free with everything else in the bag that i did buy! Sylvester. Churchill Crowns are the epitome of evil.

Aren't we all! I don't buy that much off of there, only the really low grade stuff, like US scrap silver, helps me to poke around in it and see what i can learn, especially with quarters, i enjoy searching through loads of scrap coins looking for dates/mintmarks i haven't got. And i really like Mercury Dimes, so i've accumulated quite a few low grade ones this way, and more 1941/2s than ever!... I think i now know which dates the most common, learning through fieldwork there...and if anyone tries to rip you off the loss is marginal in such low grades with low prices. One thing i saw on Ebay which made me laugh...was someone that was selling a George III Half guinea, with the beautiful line... 'this coin is in need of a clean and it still retains the original hole so that blind people could tell what denomination it was' I'm still trying to get over that one... Otherwise i stick to reputable dealers. Sylvester.