Sylvester

Many were made out of nearly 20 million melted down worn William III and Queen Anne guineas/halves. It's fairly safe to say that most of those that were consequently minted were officially melted down to make later issues (and sovereigns after the great recoinage), and many were melted down unofficailly due to the coin shortages and rising gold/silver prices from the 1750s onwards. And an interesting fact for Eliza is that during the early period of George III, many of the coins circulating were actually either tokens or 'forgeries' when i say forgeries i actually mean foreign coins of similar size to the English denominations that were sanded/worn smooth and passed off as sixpences/shillings etc. If you look at the silver coin mintages after 1758 there are very very few, mostly 1787, and 1763? in the shillings. 1798 shillings never really circulated as they were illegal Dorrien Magens who kindly supplied the silver probably got into trouble for minting them anyhow. This lack of coinage mean't that the earlier stuff had to still circulate and was worn smooth, so that's why people 'forged' the foreign coins by sanding them smooth. The mint tried to solve the problems of high denomination silver coins during this period by minting smaller gold coins, because gold was in better supply, hence why guineas and half guineas were minted most years of Geo III's reign. Syl.

This is what i feared Eliza about the mintage figures, i have some for gold coins, i actually have mintage figures for the elephant and castle guineas. But regarding the other gold coins of the period all of the mintages of gold (i have none of silver) say things like for 1760 £111,229 was minted in gold coinage, including guineas and half guineas, and that's about it. Later dates are even more confusing because guineas, half guineas and third guineas were being minted simultaneously, 1797 for example. Syl.

Any info on mintage figures of sixpences, pre 1816 is most welcome! (And half guineas). Thanks in advance Sylvester.

No Val no offence caused on my part. Only reason why i didn't respond is because i don't know alot about these coins. But the only way i could give any idea of price and value of it, is if you could post a picture of the coin, then i'll have a scan through my coin books and see what matches. Hope to be of help Sylvester.

Talking of fake £1 coins, i've just found one that i got in change today, how do i know it's fake? Well it's dated 1997 and it's got the Irish Celtic Cross reverse, but the edge lettering is right this time even if the date/reverse match is not, surely 1997 should be the English three lions? Sylvester.

Not David Dickinson! Surely not? This guy knows EVERYTHING about antiques! Alright he does know his stuff, but i don't think coins are his strong point, but it is a good programme. I really thought he would have made sure the info was correct before broadcasting it. Suddenly all my cousins are now raiding my grandmother's copper jar to see if there are any 1983 two pences with the new pence lettering, my uncle was kind enough to inform me of this rarity, whereby i informed him that his kids needn't bother looking in the tin because i've been checking it every saturday for the last five years just in case! (That was amusing, seeing the look on their faces!) Actually i'd already taken all the machin head portrait copper coins so i knew their search was fruitless (and the chances of an 1983 old word one turning up are even rarer). Three reasons why i hoard all the machin stuff, well firstly i like the design, secondly it helps me save quite a bit and i do it with this end in mind (like £2 coins), and thirdly i'm on the look out for any 1972 proofs that might turn up...why well despite the lack of value it'd be nice to see if any escaped the proof sets. Oh and a fourth reason is just a little experiment on my part to see which dates crop up most often...in the 2p range i think it would have to be from most encountered to least encountered...1971 (billions of the things), 1979, 1981, 1980, 1978, 1975, 1977 and lastly 1976. (72-74, 82-84 not issued and i haven't come across any of these yet). I have a feeling 1985 was a smaller mintage though? but is a Maklouf portrait and i'm not that keen on this one, haven't made my mind up whether it's better than the current one yet though? Pennies a bit harder but, 1971 is the most frequent, '83 and '84 are major players (so to speak), mid 70s stuff not quite as common as the later 70s stuff, and 1982 is the year i see least of. I also check all the 10p's too. Sylvester.

I could actually get into a fascinating discussion about English spelling if you so wished, from my days as an English Language student...it's amazing what you learn, the proper British spelling of the word colour was actually 'color' without the 'u' until the late 18th or early 19th century, when the people standardising the language (the ones that dropped the long s; written as f without the crossbar), and they basically decided the languaghe wasn't French enough so they added a few "u's" and swaping "er's" for "re's" in places to make it look a bit more continental and prettier...but i'll leave it at that! Anyhow back on topic i'm glad i can be of assistance in welcoming newcomers, the more the merrier! Anyone else care to introduce themselves? Sylvester.

The fake £1 coins are now more common than the 1988 £1 coins...i once had about three of them at the same time...one went to a train guard, one to a vending machine and the other one to a shop. The problem is there are so many of them out there, most of em look cast and probably are lead...with a brass paint added afterwards, weightwise they are not too far off, some vending machines are picky about taking them but sometimes this is the only way to get shut of them, usually takes them by the fourth attempt. Common indications of a fake are a waxy surface, a dull lead like colour showing through, naff shallow edge lettering (often poorly executed), fairly low relief (lower than normal) and quite often the reverse/edge lettering is wrong for that particular type of year. Many of the forgeries i've encountered are of the Irish Cross variety, and the Welsh Dragon (both of which are often inscribed 'Decus Et Tutamen' despite the fact that the latter should be 'Pleidol Wyf I'm Gwlad' *spelling?*). I think other reverses have been copied too, possibly the three lions and the Scottish lion. I'd also bet money on the Royal Arms reverse having being faked also. Not sure about the earlier 'plant/tree' stuff, and i've seen no fake '88s yet. Sylvester.

Yes the Churchill Crowns! Ah guilt tripped into buying them? Sylvester.

Agreed. Sylvester.

Oliver...glad to have you with us, Peter Nichols hey? I've dealt with him too, he does make some very very nice cabinates of which i have one myself...haha. Looks like you're into collecting seriously and only 14...it took me till about 18 to figure out what i actually wanted to collect. (I'm only 19 at the moment so it took a while). I'm glad to see people are now becoming more interested in the earlier stuff, George II had some very stunning coins minted...a nice subtle tone on a high grade shilling or sixpence, there's nothing better, not quite what the Morgan Dollar collectors in America would tell yer though. Eliza, glad to have you too...i actually collect American coins as well as British, and i frequently loiter on many American groups and they've been very happy to have me on there hurling abuse at the Churchill Crown, and dissin' the State Quarters so i'm sure we'll all get on! Spelling doesn't really enter into it, e.g either color or colour i'm happy to use either Sixpences are my speciality, anything from 1674 upto 1787 that is, my interest wanes after 1816, unless it's florins (Godless or Gothic and Ed VII) or those superb Shield reverse sovereigns of Victoria. The first coin in my collection was an 1887 shilling, just out of interest... I also like half guineas (full of unsusual demoninations me) and out of the US stuff i like, Morgans, Washington Quarters, Mercs, and Type III Double Eagles...no wonder i have no cash lying around when i need it. Sylvester. Specialisation was never my strong point!

I cut out the disappointment and just bin them...

I agree partially with Dan, i do think the penny is pretty worthless now, but like Chris i have my doubts about getting rid of it because by eliminating the 1p and the 2p coins it would devalue the currency further adding fuel to the inflation fire...how long would it be before the 20p becomes about as useful as the 5p is now and the 5p as the penny is now? My guess is not long, as prices would have to round up to the nearest 5p. I think that a recoinage is needed though. I think the current coins need a redesign, made out of different metals etc so that they don't become confused with my master plan of recoinage. As follows... Scrap the £5, £10, £20 and £50 notes, and replace them with silver coins (i actually mean .925 silver coins here, not just silver coloured coins), where the face value is well above the inrinsic value of the coin. So a £5 coin could be sixpence sized (about 50p worth of silver?), a £10 coin 1/- sized, £20 coin 2/- sized and a £50 coin size of a crown. This might help to ease inflation without having the ludicrous situation whereby every time the silver price goes up people take them all to the melting pot, as the face value of the coin is so far above the spot price. Sylvester.

They look at me funny when i walk into a store with a pre-1997 £2 coin, (or a Scottish £1 note) so yes they'll probably give you that glare...'you're joking aren't yer mate?' glare...as i always said there's alot in a glare! Sylvester.

That's why i hope we don't join the Euro, the decimal stuff is pretty insipid as it is, but it still changes design occasionally, be it either obverse or reverse. The Euro is far worse because you'd only be able to change the reverse as the obverse would have to be like every other Euro coin. Standardisation boring or what! Sylvester. I think it's time we had the Gothic Florin design ressurrected for the 10p coin. And for the 50p how about the Edward VII Florin reverse?

Best way to understand what i'm on about is to get a pile of 10p's and stack them and then look at the edges, you'll see a difference. There are two different milling types (you can only tell from the edge of the coin). The first type (early type) the coins actually look thinner and this is because the milling kind of curves away from the centre of the edge. Making the edge of the coin look rounded. The edges look blunt and rounded as if they've been sanded off. The second type (later type) has flat straight across milling and these look broader. These have sharper more clearly defined edges. WARNING; It isn't alway easy to tell them, apart. All of the thinner type are dated 1992, the fatter type date 1992-onwards, so take a 2000 one and compare it it a 1992 thin variety you'll see what i mean. Both the thin and broad milled varieties of 1992 are common. It's when you get into die varieties that it gets more complicated and the scarce (even rare?) varities crop up. I'll explain those after you've figure out the milling! Sylvester.

Yes as far as i know the 5p's have two different types of milling, in 1992 the milling on the 10p changed from wirey milling to flat milling, likewise the 5p changed at about the same time i believe. But i've yet to come across a scarce example of a 5p piece. Other coins worth looking out for; although none are rare they might be out there in circulation, (proof and uncirculated set escapees), including 1998 and 1999 £1 coins, 1986 20p's, anything 1972, (other than the crowns of course), two pences of the following dates, 1973, 1974, 1982, 1983 (especially so!), and 1984. Five pences i believe 1993 were not issued for circulation? and of course pre 1997 £2 coins, which still can be found circulating but much more rarely than they were some years ago due to being supreceded by the new bimetallic £2 coin. Sylvester.

When i say 'large edge milling' i mean the edge is flat, rather than thin and curved...and yes i am talking about the small 10p not the old large ones. Sylvester.

It always makes me laugh how people always end up thinking the following things; The 1997 'Elizabeth with necklace' £2 is rare...false! The 'new pence' reversed 2p is rare...wrong! unless it's 1983 of course because new pence was dropped in favour of 'two pence' in 1982, all 1982 and later are 'two pence'...hence why 1983 is rare, as the wrong reverse was used. How many people upon discovering that the 1933 penny is extremely rare, jump up and say...oh i've seen one of those/i've got one at home! (if i had a 1933 penny for everytime i heard that i would have had every existing example 10 times over.) Funny how when it comes to the real scarce coins, no-one's got a clue about em. 1988 £1 coins, 1992 10p piece large edge milling variety with L, I and A of Elizabeth pointing AT the dots and the 1 in '10' on the reverse pointing AT the dots. Now these coins are truely scarce. Sylvester.

More likely to come across a 1988 £1 coin! Funny how no ones heard about those though, not rare by any means but definately scarce. (Lowest mintage by far...a future investment?) Sylvester.

Silver coins are by far the easiest (i find) to scan. Gold is not so easy. Copper, well it depends on the lustre (shine) of the coin, the dark toned dull ones are much harder to scan than the brighter ones (by no means should you clean them though!) Sylvester.

Some coin shops do have a box full of junk coins, and i once came across a whole load of em, all for about 5p each. Sylvester.

Right...lets see; Since you've got the coin at hand, it's a bit hard for me to tell, but does the lettering on the Obverse (front, portrait side showing the king) read something along the lines of this, starting at the bottom left of your coin; + C O E N V V L F R E X If so then from what i can tell from my coin book (it's very complicated, lots of different varieties many of them not illustrated, and so many kings with the same name etc...) that your coin is of Coenwulf of Mercia (796-821), and is an Anglo-Saxon penny...that's if it is indeed British. With regards to the reverse well i can't find one that matches, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist, as the last line in my book for Coenwulf just states; 'R. (stands for reverse/back) various types from...[then gives some prices]). As for a price on this coin it is very difficult to quote a price on it as i don't know whether the coin is genuine or not, i'm not an expert by any means on this period of coins, and there are so many varieties. But to give you a clue of the value, and this is a rough clue if the coin is from the period it appears to be from, and is a British coin even! then the rough price would be £250 upwards. And my catalogue is dated 1993 so expect the price to have changed a bit. Sylvester. My advice to you is to get a coin dealer to examine it, as they will know much more than i do about it, especially one that specialises in hammered coins Now i've just got to identify the other one 'Possibly Aethelred' did i say? i'll get back to you on that one.

Could you possibly make the pictures bigger? Or better still make out the letters/legends and type them out, (if possible i know it's not always easy). The coins look Anglo-Saxon, one looks to be Aethelred? it's difficult to tell though. (Plus i'm not a specialist on hammered coins). If you can get a bigger picture i'll have more of an idea, i will have to go and consult a coin book on this one. I presume they are both pennies. (I'll get back to you on this...if someone doesn't beat me to it). Chris might be able to tell you more though. Sylvester.

Spade Guinea? Has the reverse got four cruciform shields (cruciform because they are in the shape of a cross, with a rampant lion in the centre; which incidentally is the lion of Nassau) and four sceptres between the shields? William should be spelt GVLIELMVS? If so then it's William III guinea. To give you an idea of the value i would ideally have to see a scan of the coin as there are several varieties of William III 1701 Guineas, from the most common examples, to the 'fine work' example and even an elephant and castle one, which go for considerable more. If the coin has a spade type i.e just the one shield on the reverse (not four) then you've got something else, what though i couldn't say. Sylvester.