absence of uniformity

OK thank you ! I really need to find a copy of Michael's book..

"One Penny 1881H with Low H, almost in contact with the linear circle, the top of the H just below the line of the base of the numerals, Gouby BP1881Ha (P+p) with 11 1/2 teeth date spacing" Can I ask please anyone with Michaels specialised book is there a estimated rarity listed for BP1881Ha (P+p) with 11 1/2 teeth date. Searching this forum no results are found. As far as I can see BP1881Ha (P+p) with 11 1/2 teeth date is not listed on Richard's website. A single example of BP1881Ha (P+p) with 11 1/2 teeth date is listed on LCA without reference to rarity. The coin however did sell for £300 listed as UNC. A similar grade coin with the same die pairing without the wider date and low H sold for 1/3 of that price. What I'm trying to figure out is the 80% remaining luster responsible for the tripling of the sold price or is it the low H and wider date. Thanks.

The image quality is terrible I know but unless its damage to me the 8 looks different. The left image shows a straight sided 8 where the top and bottom loop appear mostly equal with parallel sides. (This appears be to consistantly the case for the year and die pairing) The other image on the right shows the coin in question with more slanted shape and sides. It's most likely nothing. But its a good example of a question where my own research wont provide a definitive awnser.

Ok thanks yes I understand now, the last 1 totally out of place. I was looking for doublng or a number over a number. Here is an example of a question I cant awnser myself and I have checked all I can find with the same die pairing to see if I can see one the same. By looking at the attached image you can see the bottom loop of the 8 "appears" smaller than the top loop.

Please could you explain what's occuring on this coin, many thanks.

I accept the apology thanks. Maybe I was quick to get carried away. I know doubled or repunched characters are not of much interest I have learnt that. But some insignificant types or differences on coins have have been assigned freeman or gouby numbers and classed as more than insignificant although widely considered not real varieties. I dont have the all the book's and as far as I can see If one of the main specialist has written about a specific difference on a coin then it becomes something of interest. FYI i did exhaust searching for any written information about the coin in question. I'm quite happy doing my own research but if I can't find the a definitive awnser then I may ask the question. I started the question with I doubt it. I was just looking for confirmation of my own deduction thats all.

Since I have been accused/suspected of being dishonest and or a liar here my back is up. I'm just passionate about my new interest. Sorry if that's intolerable.

Whatever. Rob be onside or dont couldnt give a monkey's.

I started the question with I doubt it.. So no seeing these for the first time I wasnt classing it as a rarity rather simply asking the question for confirmation out of interest if nothing else.

In respect to this post tolerant of what? It's a valid question I asked is it not? It's not about making sides/ brown nosing. Im going to say it how it is. This is a public forum, keep it amicable or 🤐

Ok thanks.

Excellent thank you for taking the time to explain this. Makes perfect sense.

I was under the impression this forum is for educational purposes. A genuine coin related question IMO is worthy of a relevant response. For you and any other's please just scroll past if you are not capable of keeping it informative/educational.

Are you bored again Rob?

I doubt it but will this add any premium to a otherwise normal coin? Thanks.

@secret santa On my coin I'm consistently counting over the 138 tooth count listed on the website for Freeman Reverse E. I read the following; THE 1860 BRONZE RECOINAGE OF PENNIES PAUL M. HOLLAND "The reverse D´ type has only been found paired with obverse 3, and is without the ‘rock line’, but having the sea strongly re-cut both near the shield and at Britannia’s foot. Roughly half of obverse 3 pennies have this reverse and the others reverse D*, except for a few with the rare ‘LCW below foot’ reverse E type. The 1860 LCW below foot type reverse E (Peck reverse D, Freeman E, Gouby e) has 143 border teeth and exhibits a strongly patterned sea very similar to that of reverse D´. It is only found paired with obverse 3 and appears to have been a failed experiment, with most examples exhibiting multiple reverse die cracks. Circulated reverse E coins also show that the lap of Britannia is quickly worn away, suggesting significant problems with die relief. A survey of more than twenty examples of ‘LCW below foot’ pennies shows that nearly all of them exhibit die cracks on the reverse, with at least four different reverse working dies known. The similarity of the strongly patterned sea between reverses D´ and E, coupled with the observation that reverse D´ has so far only been found paired with obverse 3, suggests a scenario where reverse D´ probably preceded the failed reverse E experiment, and then both reverses were abandoned" It must be a typo because the coin imaged as reverse E on the website site also has 143 tooth count. Ahd the Freeman book I have doesn't list the tooth count for Reverse E.

Interestingly nobody gave an opinion on this coin. Is no news good news?

In a way I suppose its kind of compliment but maybe also a tad rude to suggest I'm being dishonest with these discoveries. If you are not putting in the legwork it doesn't mean other's aren't. With all due respect I invite you to invest a bit more time in looking for what you want. And maybe you will have some luck.

There is no way I could cook up this story, its too elaborate, its hard work paying off in the form of luck.

And to show you how poor the original photos were here is the same coin imaged with a DLSR with a macro lense and natural light + flash.

Sellers images of the complete coin, note you can just see the LCW and my imaginery crossbar.

So I wont comment on the other thread now @jelida here is what lead me to beleive the coin was BP1860Jb (Gouby D+d; Freeman 2+D) – V over inverted A in VICTORIA from the sellers images. I received the coin and annoyingly the crossbar is not visible only a faint line from one low angle using a loupe, so its not BP1860Jb. To my surprise😂 LCW is visible under Britannias foot, I know you couldnt make it up. If I hadnt of mistaken the V over inverted A and didnt purchase the coin £5.40 I now wouldnt own a BP1860M3 LCW below Britannia’s foot.

Without @secret santa and his site I would not have found what I have simple as that. This single resource of information has proven to be highly useful its all I use if I'm honest. I have the Freeman book but I dont use it. Richard's site is far easier to use as its all in digital. I use it all day everyday! I owe you a pint Richard. I would happily make a donation given how much Im using it. @jelida If you are that interested you can see my real name on Richards site, im not hiding anything for me its an honour to have my name next to rarities such as the F90 on there. As I have said above I have worked bloody hard for that.

Understand the drive and motivation when a rare coin is discovered for nothing. It makes me search longer and more intensively after each find.