Con man - Watch out for this one, bounced cheque

[Chris Perkins 223]

I'm posting this in the hope that once indexed by search engines that it can be found quickly by new potential victims!

On Saturday 7th February 2015 I received an order over the website for 5 gold coins with a total value of
£1,525.50. One of the coins was mine, but the other 4 actually belonged to someone else and were being sold on commission.

The customer chose the payment by cheque option. The details he gave were:

james hughes331 greengairs roadairdrie, ml67teUnited Kingdom

email: jameshughes84@outlook.com

Telephone number: 07570273029

He sent a cheque on Monday, it was received on Tuesday and paid in on Wednesday (11th Feb).

On Wednesday he called and asked for an update on the status of his order. I thanked him and said that the cheque had been received. I wasn't sure if it had been paid in as my stepmother was tasked with paying it in. He said that he urgently needed the coins for Monday (16th Feb, today) and I was made suspicious by this urgency, especially after emailing him after he made the order to say that if he wanted to pay with a bank transfer that it would be a bit quicker than a cheque.

He called again on Thursday. I doubt his real name is James Hughes and I suspect the address probably belongs to someone completely innocent. He has a very broad Scottish accent, that I had to tune my Southern brain into before I was able to properly understand him. He asked again about the status of his order. I told him I'd check and email him an update. He repeated that he needed the coins for Monday and I told him that even if the cheque had been paid in Tuesday that this probably wouldn't be possible as it wouldn't be properly cleared. He said that if he can't get the coins for Monday that he might have to cancel the order and said that he would have to find the coins elsewhere (which made me very suspicious because where would you find 2 Victorian and 3 GV sovereigns of the same dates/mintmarks in the same grades for the same prices and for delivery within a couple of days!!??). I checked with dad and stepmother and the cheque was paid in Wednesday, so I emailed 'Mr Hughes' but said that it wouldn't be completely cleared in time for me to send the coins in time for Monday. I told him that I can send them to a different address if he's at another address after Monday. I didn't get a reply.

The only phone number he provided is a mobile (which was also the number he called from) and the email address is a web-based email, so neither are much good for confirming identity. The cheque actually showed as cleared funds on Friday, but from previous experience I knew that this wasn't always the complete truth.

Today the cheque has been debited by my bank and is shown as CUI (currently under investigation). Nothing was sent out!

So, in case you're reading this and have had any kind of order online or via any other means with the same address/phone number/email as above, DO NOT send it out. He's a cheque fraudster and the cheque will bounce!

[Colin88 54]

Cheques are a very dangerous way of accepting payment for anything..they can be recalled for up to 6 months..as is Paypal who are a law unto themselves and operate oustide of the jurisdiction of UK law.....even Banker's drafts are not that safe...so many are stolen...you should always call the issuing bank to check the number or better still, if possible go with the person giving you the draft to your bank and pay it in with them.

Leaving money in your paypal account is never a good idea either.....a dealer friend of mine sold £6000 of sovereigns and krugers a few years ago to InvestCoin2003 on eBay (you may remember they were based at Gatwick Airport with an address in Gibraltar...they build up a solid reputation over a couple of years with 100% feedback .).....then did a massive bunk with money and coins...we all had our suspicions as to whom was behind it .....anyway my friend left the money in his Paypal account as he was used to dealing regularly in large sums...several weeks later Paypal took the £6k back saying that the payment into his Paypal account had been obtained and made by fraudulent means....thats all they said.

My friend then got into this Kafkaesque situation where Paypal wouldnt tell him any more, quoting the old "Data Protection Act" bollox and at that time Paypal were virtually impossible to communicate with...and our politically correct traffic wardens ...sorry, our Police Force had zero interest in it as well ....anyway he lost the £6k ..and the sovereigns.

BACS or CHAPS is the safest way...its guaranted cleared funds directly into your account.

[Rob 3,002]

We could probably do with a restricted access list of ids where a rip off attempt has been made. I've got a short list of my own where the same person has attempted to pay and the card has been refused inbcluding some where various ids are linked. A good indicator for ebay sales is where their id has been changed in the day or two before the purchase. It is always worth delaying shipping these and contacting paypoo at the same time.

[Chris Perkins 223]

I remember InvestCoins2003, yes!

Whenever I accept cheques I always wait for them to properly clear and also attempt checks on the person's name, address, email and telephone number. Usually fraudsters always have a web based email address (as opposed to something @btinternet or a company one) and usually also use a mobile number. I know that these days there are people without land lines, but I find that genuine buyers are only too happy to provide further details, or write from another email address etc. Often an IP address lookup can also assist to make sure that the person is in the country where the coins are to be sent to (although there are also genuine reasons for this not always being the case).

[Coinery 926]

I was told by my bank that even direct transfers can be recalled within a timescale, forget what that was now?

[Rob 3,002]

I was told by my bank that even direct transfers can be recalled within a timescale, forget what that was now?

I think it might be the normal clearing period of say 3 days as I've had to wait that long to pick up my lots which I won and paid by transfer.

[azda 973]

I assume the mobile number they left you Chris was made up?

[Chris Perkins 223]

No, It's a real mob number Dave, but I suspect it's a pay as you go. Shall I report it to the police? Is it going to help anyone? Is it even illegal to have a cheque bounce - I suspect not if no goods were received.

[TomGoodheart 373]

Usually fraudsters always have a web based email address (as opposed to something @btinternet or a company one) and usually also use a mobile number.

Hmm .. I've only ever use web-based mail. And I prefer to use my mobile ... trickier for people to link my home address to coin purchases.

Of course I'm honest. Honest guv!

[Rob 3,002]

Hmm .. I've only ever use web-based mail. And I prefer to use my mobile ... trickier for people to link my home address to coin purchases.

Of course I'm honest. Honest guv!

Doesn't all email go over the web?

[Chris Perkins 223]

Yes, but more trustworthy is someone@btinternet.com (as they have a BT account and somewhere a real address) or someone@bbc.co.uk (as they use a company account and that tends to also mean that they are genuine - assuming the domain name and website are genuine!).

Better than someone@gmail.com or someone@outlook.com etc.... just another free web based email address that anyone can setup in minutes without giving any real data.

Of course there are genuine honest people with such accounts and just mobile numbers!

[sound 25]

Hi Chris,

Had an order online today for a choice 1799 Spade Guinea from the same address. Paying by cheque. Will let you know where it goes.

Kind regards

Mark

[sound 25]

No, It's a real mob number Dave, but I suspect it's a pay as you go. Shall I report it to the police? Is it going to help anyone? Is it even illegal to have a cheque bounce - I suspect not if no goods were received.

Chris,

It is illegal to write a cheque 'knowingly' that it will bounce after entering into a contract.

Regards

Mark

[Peter 615]

These people are scum of the earth Invest coins got away with a fortune.

[azda 973]

I'm sure if its a stolen cheque book then it would be illegal surely, its fraud and theft

[Colin88 54]

I was told by my bank that even direct transfers can be recalled within a timescale, forget what that was now?

Payments made by BACS or CHAPS are guaranteed cleared funds at the time by the bank......

[Colin88 54]

No, It's a real mob number Dave, but I suspect it's a pay as you go. Shall I report it to the police? Is it going to help anyone? Is it even illegal to have a cheque bounce - I suspect not if no goods were received.

Nope, not illegal in the UK....it is in France...if you bounce a cheque in France they automatically block your bank account (yes, they do) and its treated as a criminal offense.....

[azda 973]

No, It's a real mob number Dave, but I suspect it's a pay as you go. Shall I report it to the police? Is it going to help anyone? Is it even illegal to have a cheque bounce - I suspect not if no goods were received.

Nope, not illegal in the UK....it is in France...if you bounce a cheque in France they automatically block your bank account (yes, they do) and its treated as a criminal offense.....

But surely if the cheque book is stolen Then its illegal, so the question is, is it a stolen cheque book as from what Mark has said there has Now been a second attempt at buying gold coins. Maybe a phonecall To the issuing bank to clear it up? Could it be the same investcoins2003 trying again? Edited February 17, 2015 by azda

[Colin88 54]

I remember InvestCoins2003, yes!

Whenever I accept cheques I always wait for them to properly clear and also attempt checks on the person's name, address, email and telephone number. Usually fraudsters always have a web based email address (as opposed to something @btinternet or a company one) and usually also use a mobile number. I know that these days there are people without land lines, but I find that genuine buyers are only too happy to provide further details, or write from another email address etc. Often an IP address lookup can also assist to make sure that the person is in the country where the coins are to be sent to (although there are also genuine reasons for this not always being the case).

I dealt happilly with them for a while ....then got stiffed by them when they did a runner...as did so many others...to the tune of at least £1m by my reckoning and by what I found out over time......I made it a mission to find out who they were....I believe that I did but couldnt prove it for sure nor do anything about it as there was a complete lack of interest by the law and the fact that the main person was outside of the UK

[Chris Perkins 223]

Hi Chris,

Had an order online today for a choice 1799 Spade Guinea from the same address. Paying by cheque. Will let you know where it goes.

Kind regards

Mark

Really! He/they are obviously targeting coin dealers at the moment. I'll let the BNTA know with a link to this page.

[Chris Perkins 223]

And I'm not sure if the cheque book is stolen. I should have got dad to do a copy of it before paying it in. Sound, is the name on the cheque book also J Hughes? I suppose it's likely to be a cheque book that belongs to the real J Hughes who is completely innocent.

[azda 973]

Maybe Mark (sound) can copy it when it arrives to him

[Coinery 926]

I was told by my bank that even direct transfers can be recalled within a timescale, forget what that was now?

Payments made by BACS or CHAPS are guaranteed cleared funds at the time by the bank......

Not according to the woman at my bank, when I enquired due to anxiety regarding a particular dispatch!

That's not to say she was right, of course?

[sound 25]

I should add that the address is the same, but using a different name. I'm not going to comment publicly again on this as I'm contacting the police later in the day after seeing if the cheque has arrived. If anyone wants to speak about this please use my contact details.

Regards

Mark

[Colin88 54]

I was told by my bank that even direct transfers can be recalled within a timescale, forget what that was now?

Payments made by BACS or CHAPS are guaranteed cleared funds at the time by the bank......

Not according to the woman at my bank, when I enquired due to anxiety regarding a particular dispatch!

That's not to say she was right, of course?

The problem and the irony with banks, is that they cant be trusted with money..