Edward I or II farthing? S1450 or S1474?

[Coinery]

OK, it's written in the books...

No-one seems to be able to provide a difference between an Edward I Type 30 farthing, or an Edward II Type 30 farthing, not even Spink, so I'm looking for any ideas or deeper reading that might shed some light on this for me?

The best solution I can come up with so far is the degradation of punches and/or dies to provide a presently loose timescale on the period that it covers?

For example, below are the two crowns of my edward I/II farthings. There is a clear deterioration of the punch and die of the second crown. There are also the broken tops of the angle-backed Es, which are mentioned everywhere, this must also give some supporting chronology, IF this is the only way?

Any ideas?

[Coinery]

OK, this cross-over period needs disseminating, and I’ve now read all I can, discovering the truth probably already exists within the texts for Type 30 at least (unless you would like to challenge the texts rather more academically than a mere literature review?).

Withers being the most updated, and currently undisputed work on the hammered farthings of this period, have Type 30 clearly within the Edward II reign, dating it (with others) as 1310-1314. It is only Spinks that complicates the matter, because it hasn’t yet come up to speed with the new classifications, despite the fact that Withers’ is the text they now use to develop their catalogue numbers (and I can see why it is as yet woolly).

They (Spinks) have the ‘new’ issue farthing (inner circles both sides), spanning both reigns and, to complicate things further, have ALL the Edward II farthings (of which there are a number of types) listed under just one Spink number. We’ve all been there before I know!

Anyway, of real interest and significance, little did I know it, are Types 28 and 29. These, according to Withers, actually DO span the two reigns in date (1300-1310), yet Spink has them both catalogued within the Edward I reign. Now, as far as I can tell, because the crowns and busts overlap the two reigns, is that the E and C are the only separating indicators as far as Spinks are concerned? Namely, round-backed is E1 and Angle-Backed is E2?

However, as far as Withers is concerned, if I’m disseminating this correctly (and Withers hasn’t actually said this), is that the round-back and Angle-back letters traverse the two reigns, without a distinct timescale? But Spinks classification appears to make the statement (though they haven’t said this) that the angle and the round are the difference between S1450 and S 1474.

I’d absolutely love to understand this fickle little detail about the farthings, as I’m sure the information is there now, but yet to be effectively articulated...unlike wot I ‘ave just done.

I know it can be brainstormed through to a satisfactory conclusion, however!

I do at least feel satisfied that my two farthings (W30h & W30b) are both Edward II, despite the significant deterioration in punches and dies of the 4 years they are thought to cover.

[TomGoodheart]

Shame they're such didly things or they'd be quite nice!

(And had you thought of just phoning Paul or Benthe and having a chat?)

.

[Peter]

With Stewies expertise I smell a publication.

I have got some early hammered farthings but collect blind.

I type collect here but concentrate on eye appeal.

[Coinery]

'Tis true TG they are didly! You'd need more than 18 of these little 'Blumens' to tip any scales countered by a Charles shilling!

I'd try getting in touch with the Withers', but can't yet articulate the issue clearly enough that even I can understand it?

Hah! Publication, Peter, I ask you? I'm only regurgitating what's already out there, and just piling a bit of fancy old icing on top of it!

I do try and get value for money out of this little pastime of ours, so tinkering around with any purchase I make is all part of the fun! I also have the nature that wants to understand things to the n'th degree before moving on

PS: Just realised I've ended nearly every sentence with a smiley! It does make me smile, this coinie life!