Potential Acquisition

[azda]

I believe auctions are immune to this system of 14 day return

[azda]

I also believe hammered coins can be graded and i'd say this was NEF, although everyone has their opinion eapecially if you're the buyer or the seller. I'm neither, just my opinion

[Paulus]

It has plenty of eye appeal ... lol. My grading, for what it's worth, would be GVF

I would like a ruling on this 14 day return thing, is it law, does it come under distance selling, I am sure it doesn't apply to eBay auctions for example, there is no 'cooling off period', and you can only return auction items if they are deemed to be 'not as described' ... anyone have the sure knowledge?

Surely everyone would be at it, buying an auction item online, not being able or bothered to view it 'in hand' before the auction, and then saying, within 2 weeks, 'no, I don't want it after all, please refund me' - that can't be how things are??

[Coinery]

I believe auctions are immune to this system of 14 day return

They wouldn't survive very long if they were hard-faced, and to the letter of the law with their public! I have to say, I've never had an issue that wasn't resolved to my satisfaction with ANY auction house ever!

Yes, I was forgetting the minting processes, Dave!

However, hmmmm, no, I'll leave it well alone!

[Coinery]

I also believe hammered coins can be graded and i'd say this was NEF, although everyone has their opinion eapecially if you're the buyer or the seller. I'm neither, just my opinion

But what does that really mean? What does it symbolise? I don't understand?

[azda]

Auction houses are exempt from the 14 day rule as i have had issues previously and was told this. Only under exceptional circumstances would they take anything back, grading would'nt be one of those as its subjective

I sent back a Northumberland shilling to DNW becauseit had been previously holed and was skillfully repaired but was'nt stated i their catalogue but was inly mentioned on the dayof bidding

Edited April 16, 2015 by azda

[sound]

Paulus,

Here you go.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/i-want-to-return-something-bought-online-

Dave, nothing wrong with strong opinions however it might be good to be carful. Strong statements such as 'serial over graders' on a public board could leave you open to legal action. If Chris is reading this he may want to consider modifying it for his own protection.

Surely the kind of language to use is ' I don't always agree with their grading, for me they are not conservative enough'. We will all get the message and all you have done is express an opinion.

Kind regards

Mark

[azda]

Sorrybut nothing ofthis nature was mentioned when MHCOINS also stated that fact, try looking up histhread

[azda]

Your link is for online purchases, does it also detail auction houses? No, just high street online purchases

Edited April 16, 2015 by azda

[azda]

Double posr

Edited April 16, 2015 by azda

[Coinery]

I can understand it with a G6 penny, where the finest rib of hair missing above the ear can nearly half the value? But with hammered, it seems such a pointless exercise?

I think hammered coins should be graded with clapometers or wow-factor!

When grade is synonymous with value, and presumably the reason we want to nail-it, the clapometer will do just as nicely!

[Paulus]

Paulus,

Here you go.

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/problem/i-want-to-return-something-bought-online-

Dave, nothing wrong with strong opinions however it might be good to be carful. Strong statements such as 'serial over graders' on a public board could leave you open to legal action. If Chris is reading this he may want to consider modifying it for his own protection.

Surely the kind of language to use is ' I don't always agree with their grading, for me they are not conservative enough'. We will all get the message and all you have done is express an opinion.

Kind regards

Mark

Thanks Mark

Well, if this applies to online auctions it's a bit of a game-changer I have to say! And why wouldn't it - are there exceptions made for auctions??

If it does, we effectively have any coin won on an on-line auction on a 10 day approval, whether it's from a bricks and mortar house, or eBay (allowing for postage times). It would change my thinking completely, since I could examine the coin in hand before committing (as most reputable dealers offer, of course).

So far, no-one has tried returning any coins I have sold through eBay auctions (BIN is different) on this basis (i.e they have simply changed their mind)

Would really like to know for sure ... if it's true, I will be bidding on auctions like there is no tomorrow, knowing all I have to do is cancel within 14 days - to the annoyance of the seller and the auction house no doubt!!! It CAN'T be right, surely?

[sound]

Dave,

My comment was not intended as a criticism of you. I'm sorry if it came across in that way. I would say to anyone, this is a public board and for Chris's and our protection we need to be careful how we couch things.

On your other point I would not be dogmatic and am prepared to be corrected.

I have a customer who regularly returns coins to auction houses if he purchases on the basis of their online descriptions and he's not happy. I think I'm right in saying that eBay auctions are subject to the same terms.

Regards

Mark

[Coinery]

Re auction house returns (as hammered grading's gone out the window now), I would think a previously holed coin would be something they'd want to honour with a credit? Grading is of course 'buyer beware'! I don't think an auction house should get into a debate about grade, or what their peers have previously graded?

There is an onus upon the buyer to view the coins, which I know most of us can't do and, without our blind'ish' bids, most auction houses would suffer. This is why, for the most part, they don't normally bite the hand that feeds. Normally, that is!

[Paulus]

Mark

The key distinction here relates to a 'no-quibble' return - if you are questioning the description in the auction listing that is one thing, and eBay and Auction Houses will often find in favour of the bidder - they may not have to by law, unless it is clear cut.

On the other hand, simply changing your mind as the buyer, within 14 days, is something else entirely ... do you see what I am getting at?

[sound]

Yes I do, but I'm sure that anyone changing their mind could come up with a pretty good reason.

[azda]

Correct Paul, as stated previously auction houses are immune to the rule. I've had 2 instances, 1 with DNW which i was refunded due to their error and another where i bought a bunch of fales which were just described as coins and i got trading standards involved and lost because they were apparently as described "coins"

Grading won't get your money back nor will a change of mind asthey sell on BEHALF of a 3rd party, trust me, there's ni 14 day money back at auction houses unless they send a wrong coin or some other serious issue such as mine was from DNW

ImGine if 30 or 40 people had a change of mind at auction, they would'nt be in business.

Edited April 16, 2015 by azda

[Coinery]

As Mark says above, the online description is key, whether eBay or an auction house, excepting anything that could be seen as subjective.

Meaning, an eBay auction selling an Elizabeth I silver sixpence, which arrives as a pewter copy, would not be a binding auction! Nor would any sublety of the same principle thereafter! At least that's how I understand it?

[Paulus]

Yes I do, but I'm sure that anyone changing their mind could come up with a pretty good reason.

They could, but you shouldn't have to give a reason if you are covered by a form of 'distance selling, cooling off period legislation' - I am just trying to establish whether that is the law nowadays?

[Paulus]

All - I am trying to establish whether a 14-day no-quibble return is law, on on-line auction purchases, as Mark suggests - that is all. Of course, if there is a dispute with the item pics or description, that is one thing, but I am talking about the option to simply 'change your mind' - which I do not believe is backed by law.

[azda]

Yes I do, but I'm sure that anyone changing their mind could come up with a pretty good reason.

They could, but you shouldn't have to give a reason if you are covered by a form of 'distance selling, cooling off period legislation' - I am just trying to establish whether that is the law nowadays?

Head over to the saleroom and read ANY of their TOCs and I'll bet £100 that NONE mention returns

[Paulus]

Agreed Dave, I don't think you can do that, and if you could the whole process would be undermined

[Coinery]

Agreed Dave, I don't think you can do that, and if you could the whole process would be undermined

If they sold you a fake or previously holed coin I bet you could return it?

[azda]

And Now I rest my case

the cooling off period won’t apply

You might not get the right to a cooling-off period if:

·you buy certain goods and services which the law says aren't covered by a cooling-off period

·you're a business buyer

·you bid for something in a public auction. An online auction is not a public auction because you cannot attend it, so you should get the right to cancel when you buy something through an online auction

you buy from a private individual and not a business

·you agree for a service to be fully performed straight away. This depends on a number of factors and could mean that you lose your right to cancel.

More about your rights when you buy from a private individual

More about agreeing for a service bought by distance sale to start straight away

[Paulus]

Agreed Dave, I don't think you can do that, and if you could the whole process would be undermined

If they sold you a fake or previously holed coin I bet you could return it?

Definitely, and I have had to do that (successfully, even though I didn't buy it from the auction house) with a Northumberland shilling.

But that falls under the category 'not as described', not 'I've changed my mind', doesn't it?

Boy we are having some lively debates about hammered grading and auction rules tonight