1881 Penny 9+M?

[bronze mad]

I got this along with a lot of other bulk coins,I know its well worn! It looks to be obv 9 with the younger portrait and larger legend lettering. But instead of rev J it has the heaton mintmark, which is on rev M, this is an extremely rare die pairing according to freeman, one thing that puzzles me is that Freeman states rev M as flat shield, but this in concave? as rev J?

I have been studying a lot of 1881 - 1882 pennies just lately and to me it seems that the rev N pennies have a flat sheild,

trying to identify some of the different die pairings of these years is hard if one refers to freeman, I don't have goubys

reference book.

would it be worth getting? does his books make life easier? or just confuse things even more!

[Martinminerva]

Looks very much a 9+M to me. Diagnostics are the CONVEX - actually - shield (yes, Freeman has got it wrong here) and the seven border beads inclusive between the 2 colons in D : G : - Obverse 11 which is the usual one paired with the mint mark has 8 border teeth here.

The H mint mark only occurs for 1881 on reverse M, so unless it has been doctored ( just occasionally H 's can be cut off other coins and stuck on new ones - London Coins sold an "1875H" narrow date penny last sale where that was exactly what had been done, as genuine 1875 H pennies always have a wide date), you have made a very rare find indeed.

Gouby (yes, a brilliant book and well worth getting, even if I say so myself (I get a quick credit in his acknowledgements!)) records it as number BP 1881 Ga and his die pair is M + p, and states that only 5 are known, so yours will be a sixth - well done indeed! He gives a value of £120 in fair, which actually seems a little low to me given its rarity. Just check out the H with a good eye glass first!!

[MACKSILKY.]

Hi bronze the 9+M is listed in the spink book, F £475 - EF £2600, hope this helps.

[bronze mad]

cheers for your help guys, as soon as i looked at it i knew it was rev 9, and with the Heaton rev i knew that is wasnt the common type.

I think i will get it slabbed so it is recorded, also i think that there are more out there lying amongst bulk lots, this came from london coins last December! in bulk lot.

in freemans book for the 103 he has a question mark after it, maybe he never came across one!

[Peckris]

cheers for your help guys, as soon as i looked at it i knew it was rev 9, and with the Heaton rev i knew that is wasnt the common type.

I think i will get it slabbed so it is recorded, also i think that there are more out there lying amongst bulk lots, this came from london coins last December! in bulk lot.

in freemans book for the 103 he has a question mark after it, maybe he never came across one!

What he actually says is :

"Only one specimen found, well circulated, and with the area of the mintmark obscured. It is therefore not known if this reverse occurs with 'H' below the date, when accompanied by Obverse 9"

[bronze mad]

cheers for your help guys, as soon as i looked at it i knew it was rev 9, and with the Heaton rev i knew that is wasnt the common type.

I think i will get it slabbed so it is recorded, also i think that there are more out there lying amongst bulk lots, this came from london coins last December! in bulk lot.

in freemans book for the 103 he has a question mark after it, maybe he never came across one!

What he actually says is :

"Only one specimen found, well circulated, and with the area of the mintmark obscured. It is therefore not known if this reverse occurs with 'H' below the date, when accompanied by Obverse 9"

so he did find one but it was too worn? is that what he means by obscured?

[Peckris]

cheers for your help guys, as soon as i looked at it i knew it was rev 9, and with the Heaton rev i knew that is wasnt the common type.

I think i will get it slabbed so it is recorded, also i think that there are more out there lying amongst bulk lots, this came from london coins last December! in bulk lot.

in freemans book for the 103 he has a question mark after it, maybe he never came across one!

What he actually says is :

"Only one specimen found, well circulated, and with the area of the mintmark obscured. It is therefore not known if this reverse occurs with 'H' below the date, when accompanied by Obverse 9"

so he did find one but it was too worn? is that what he means by obscured?

He means you can't see if it's an H penny or not

[Bernie]

A hen's tooth, wonderful find!