Medieval Belgian Seal Dish!

[Chris Perkins]

Not a coin, but it is numismatic in that it's seal related. I wondered if anyone had seen something similar or knew anything about this kind of thing?

It's a brass dish 24cm (9.5in) in diameter. The centre appears to be an impression of a medieval Belgian seal that reads:

S'PREPOSITORUM ET SCABINORUM CURTRACENSIUM

The S' is, I think an abbreviation of SIGILLUM and from what I can tell the whole thing translates to something like:

Reeve and Alderman seal (of) Kortrijk.

A Reeve was an official responsible for an area, I suppose something similar to a mayor in this case. The Alderman was probably a lower rank than a Reeve back then. Curtracensium was a Latin name for the Belgian (at that time Flanders) city of Kortrijk.

The 77mm seal in the middle of the dish is described in an 1873 book, referred to here:

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=fikKAQAAIAAJ&q=prepositorum+et+scabinorum+curtracensium&dq=prepositorum+et+scabinorum+curtracensium&hl=en&sa=X&ei=C0MbUvmtFMjKtQafoYDoAQ&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAA

Any idea as to why an impression of the seal was made into a brass dish (I imagine at a much later date)? Any idea of the age of the dish or any other information gratefully received.

[Peckris]

[HistoricCoinage]

Bowls/dishes with coins in are pretty common and don't often fetch much as the coin is inevitably harshly cleaned or polished. Whilst I have never seen one with a copy of a seal in the 19th and 20th century electrotype copies are often found in auctions and at fairs. For an impression to be put into the dish like this is most probably a decorative feature and taking into account the fact it's impressed and not attached/joined to the bowl, along with the rings I would suggest this is mid-20th century.

An interesting piece. Something you'd probably find on the beams in an old bar in Bruges.

[Chris Perkins]

The feel of it is older than mid 20th century, but it's certainly post industrial revolution I'd say. The piece of string and rings could be a later addition.

[HistoricCoinage]

The feel of it is older than mid 20th century, but it's certainly post industrial revolution I'd say. The piece of string and rings could be a later addition.

Fair enough. Taking into account the later addition of the rings, maybe 1890-1930?

[Chris Perkins]

Who knows. Sold in the city of Kortrijk I suppose, as a decorative item just for fun. I'll try and find a Belgian forum for antiques and collectables. Probably one of the kinds of things that everyone in Belgium has in the loft!

[HistoricCoinage]

Who knows. Sold in the city of Kortrijk I suppose, as a decorative item just for fun. I'll try and find a Belgian forum for antiques and collectables. Probably one of the kinds of things that everyone in Belgium has in the loft!

Keep us updated if you would, I'm intrigued.

[Chris Perkins]

I will.

[Elsa]

I have recently found this site - specifically this post - whilst researching a brass dish I have.

The impression is of the Seal in absence of the Grand Seal of Charles V 'le sage' of France. I have learned that the impression at the University of Notre Dame is dated 1376. I am curious as to how such an item could have been pressed and could this have been done indirectly from a wax impression. I also understand that tradition at the time was to donate second/third royal seals  to the 'Sisters', a charitable organisation. Any idea how I might date the dish? I assume it is relatively modern. The impression has the same diameter as the impression at the Hesburgh Library. I did email them, twice, to ask where the original seal matrix is but have had no reply. I was hoping, at the very least, to be told this is a relatively modern souvenir, comon in France. The dish looks old and may not be a single piece of brass. Any help on who else may be able to assist would be much appreciated.

 

I

[IanB]

Pie dish, jelly mold, or something similar maybe.

Edited August 13, 2016 by IanB

[Chris Perkins]

Looks similar to mine, but the images are very small. I have mine hanging on the wall now, never found out anything else about it!

[Rob]

I had a really tasty seal dish in Newfoundland in 1982. Thankfully the seal wasn't medieval.